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Old 05-26-2008, 10:03 PM   #7576
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
FWIW my 2nd round pick came down to Penny, Horace Grant, or Oakley
How is it a decision Grant vs Oakley? Horace is everything Charles was, just a notch better.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:05 PM   #7577
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Oakely's only edge was in the hard(dirty) foul department.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:06 PM   #7578
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

He was a better rebounder.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:08 PM   #7579
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I don't feel like hes that injury prone at all.
I don't see how anyone could say this with a straight face.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:12 PM   #7580
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I don't see how anyone could say this with a straight face.
who is epip talking about?
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:15 PM   #7581
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Very quietly all 5 starters from the Pistons championship year have been drafted + one of their #1 guy off their bench the following year.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:15 PM   #7582
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Mookie!

Clark is pimping this draft. I think he has the sickest team so far - the combo of offense and defense is nasty.

D
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:16 PM   #7583
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Jamison is like the poster child for misleading stats imo. VVV Good numbers, but as a real life basketball player not as good.
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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Jamison is like the poster child for misleading stats imo. VVV Good numbers, but as a real life basketball player not as good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Jamison is like the poster child for misleading stats imo. VVV Good numbers, but as a real life basketball player not as good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Jamison is like the poster child for misleading stats imo. VVV Good numbers, but as a real life basketball player not as good.
Care to explain? I feel as if hes pretty underrated. Hes also a great locker room guy btw.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:16 PM   #7584
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Bobbo, you said Willis was a top 5 center at my spot, can you pm me who else you had in mind?
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:16 PM   #7585
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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who is epip talking about?
kevin martin
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:19 PM   #7586
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i watched a lot of wizards games due to my bobbo bet and i completely disagree. i think jamison is a great scorer. he has very good post moves and can sweep thru the lane with a hook. hes a good shooter too. he also gets a lot of boards for easy layins.

i think hes a very smart player as far as gameplay actually. he does get too emotional at times which is good and bad.
This doesn't surprise me one bit that the two people who probably watched teh most Wiz games are defending the pick while others bash it because "his stats are misleading." Jamison is underrated imo.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:20 PM   #7587
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Mookie!

Clark is pimping this draft. I think he has the sickest team so far - the combo of offense and defense is nasty.

D
I like KG/Lambs/Hornacek more I think.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:22 PM   #7588
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah I think Clark's hate for Jamison is unfounded. Basically Clark has as much personal bias in his "guys I like" decisions as anyone but since it's Clark everyone jumps aboard. His "Jamison sux" while clamoring about what a stud JJ is makes no sense.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:23 PM   #7589
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Antawn Jamison doesn't even have very good stats.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:24 PM   #7590
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I am surprised it took that long for Rip to be drafted. He is the new Reggie Miller.
Not even close imo.

Rip's career TS% is 52.9 with a high of 55.3. Reggie's is 61.4 with a high of 65.0.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:25 PM   #7591
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Also Rip is def not Reggie because he lacks the 3 ball, only recently has he become proficient at it. His TS% is actually not that high given that he has a reputation for being a sick shooter because he doesn't get to the line that often and doesn't shoot a lot of 3s.

edit: He's obv very good, just saying this is the one downside.
I guess you beat me to it. I'm not a huge fan of Rip. I think hes very overrated due to playing on a good team. Hes not good at anything really besides scoring and hes not even that great at efficiency for a guy who is only a semi bulk scorer.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:31 PM   #7592
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
anyone who has a pick soon that wants to trade, i have good picks coming up (3 in the next 2 rounds) so i'd be willing to work something out. send me a pm!
I have a very early 4th round pick. I know its not that soon, but if you're interested in that then I may trade down.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:32 PM   #7593
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I am interested in that pick Assani. I'm only a <10 spot drop from there to.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:35 PM   #7594
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Mookie Blaylock

Good luck all
Don't like the pick. Its one thing for a great defender to know that he sucks on offense and just not shoot the ball(like Ben Wallace who shoots 5.6 times per game and most of those are off of offensive rebounds he gets. However Mookie took 13 shots per game. His TS% of 48.8 is just horrendous. Not to mention that defense at the PG spot isn't nearly as vital as post defense, especially when hes an undersized PG who can only guard other point guards really.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:37 PM   #7595
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
in play styles, sure. but there are a ton of catch and shoot guys that could fit this bill.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ilri01&y2=2008

but in terms of talent? through 9 yrs, Reggie scored more points on fewer shots, committed fewer TOs, identical rebounder, look at the TS dif - Reggie also has a huge edge in WSAA (dont understand how Rip is negative, it's such a weird/bad stat)

through 9 yrs Reggie has missed many fewer games and also has played more minutes - reggie is a mUCH better 3pt threat (through 9 yrs, nearly 40% on 4.2 a game, lol, that is ****in sick!) whereas rip is 34.5% (roughly average) on 1.5 attempts (meaning he picks his spots and is still mediocre)

reggie goes to the line 1.2 times more a game, fouls less often..

don't know how else to say it, but, no, they are both shooters, except reggie is much better. but thats not the debate, you mentioned their similarities, and Reggie is a lower usage player (22.4%) whereas Rip is featured in his offense (26.9%).

Pretty much the only thing Rip does better, and it's not even that much better, is pass. (hell, reggie forces more TOs!)

/end rant

note that i know you didnt mean they are similar in terms of effectiveness, given Reggie was a 1st round pick and Rip was a 3rd round pick (and i think both deserve those slots) but in terms of play styles Reggie just did alot more in a lot less, if that makes sense. (If Rip was a better 3pt shooter, than his game would parallel reggie miller)

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
mookie, i tought he'd slip. awful offensive player for this pick, clark. good defender tho. bad shooter - i had him as my 5th best PG available. doesn't his .488 TS scare you? also, for someone who was ineffective as he was offensively, he shot too much. (well, an average amount at a bad clip, i should say) im not sure if his game meshes that great with ewing. mookie to lance is a decent pnr, but defenders will be able to cheat on both guys.

i think you're overvaluing defense right now, but who knows.


Wow, maybe instead of replying I should just type "+1" after everything Bobbo writes from now on.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:38 PM   #7596
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Mookie!

Clark is pimping this draft. I think he has the sickest team so far - the combo of offense and defense is nasty.

D
Seriously? I think he has one of the worst offenses in the league so far.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:40 PM   #7597
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Don't like the pick. Its one thing for a great defender to know that he sucks on offense and just not shoot the ball(like Ben Wallace who shoots 5.6 times per game and most of those are off of offensive rebounds he gets. However Mookie took 13 shots per game. His TS% of 48.8 is just horrendous. Not to mention that defense at the PG spot isn't nearly as vital as post defense, especially when hes an undersized PG who can only guard other point guards really.
assani, in the future, just read my posts and quote them.

anyway, i agree with the above, but ive made it clear, and prolly should back off the mookie hate.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:41 PM   #7598
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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does pace count for anything?...cuz I think that is a HUGE reason to why RIPS numbers are not as big as they should be.

Hes the opposite of Antwan Jamison (whereas Jamisons numbers seem to be inflated)....RIPs are lower imo due to his team and the way they play slow tempo basketball. I thnk the word im looking for is PACE...and Detroit has very slow one at that.

RIP is not a dime a dozen - not at all. There are alot of catch and shoot guys (i agree)...but....not is RIP one of the top catch and shoot guys in the game - but hes got soooo much more to offer than just that.

I understand not many people like RIP...tbh Im not a big fan of the Pistons period...but can you really argue with with what he has brought to the table? RIP does a lot of things above average...meaning defense and offense. Like I said before - hes not a one trick pony...this guy can not only tire out his defenders - but is relentless on defense...some call him dirty but I call it experience and savvy....he knows what to do to win.

Please dont call him a catch a shoot player - becuz hes far more than just that. This guy can slash very well - he can shoot the 3 point shot at an above average percent and is a very good finisher...you get him the ball 18 feet in - you can count on him either getting to the line or finding a way to finish.

Again - RIPs numbers dont tell the whole story...and Im surprised anyone would even refute this.
ITs easy to look good on D when you're playing with such great other defenders on your team. If Rip stayed on Washington I don't think he'd be considered nearly as good as he is now.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:46 PM   #7599
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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ITs easy to look good on D when you're playing with such great other defenders on your team. If Rip stayed on Washington I don't think he'd be considered nearly as good as he is now.
Agree. He's the obvious weak link on Detroit. This is my general problem with DRtg. That said, I do think he's a better defender than JJ/Redd/Kmart, but I think all those 3 guys are below avg, whereas Rip is just avg.

So many #2 scoring options have been drafted this round, it's really tough to rate them, but this drafting rush has left some players who fufil other needs available.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:53 PM   #7600
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I really think that Martin's isn't as bad on the defenseive end as his numbers suggest. The kings interior defense is so poor that it brings down the ratings of their perimeter players. The interior players shoulder a much larger burden for your team defense. Even looking at Artest's numbers who was no doubt an elite defenderhad a drtg that has increased from 104, 105,108 the past 3 years in sacramento. While his worst year in Indiana was 100 with multiple seasons in the 90s.
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