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Old 05-26-2008, 09:07 PM   #7526
capone0
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I was thinking about going Rashard and D12, but idk.......good pick though. Good value right now.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:07 PM   #7527
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ugh Clark, don't like that at all.

edit: I mean it's ok but you have Ewing/Nance, now you pick up a PG who can't really shoot? He's a good distributor and very solid defensively but there are better offensive options here IMO. So I guess "Meh Clark, could have been better".
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:07 PM   #7528
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

****

Mookie was destined to be my PG in round 4.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:07 PM   #7529
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Someone please to PM AC btw.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:09 PM   #7530
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Lucky seeing as how things went, my sleep pattern is messed up and I had no hope of getting to sleep, just deciding on my pick now.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:09 PM   #7531
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Mookie Blaylock

Good luck all
Him and Payton are probally the two best stealers in the league and he's also a very good overall D. Not a rediculous passer but a good one. Rebound numbers are also good for a PG. Pretty inefficient though and probally why he fell so far (49% TS%).
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:09 PM   #7532
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 3, Pick 112

Mookie Blaylock - 6'1" guard



Gone for the evening but I'll keep it quick. A premier defensive stopper, with more NBA all-defensive team appearances (6!) than PG not named Kidd or Payton. Yet, still has a respectible PER above 15 for each of the 10 years that start with this draft at age 24, including over 20 at his peak. A pass-first PG averaging nearly 7apg for his career who will get my big men the ball where they want it, he helps my offense and cements my D as one of the best in this league
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:09 PM   #7533
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
Bobbo he's more similar to Reggie than both just being shooters.
in play styles, sure. but there are a ton of catch and shoot guys that could fit this bill.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ilri01&y2=2008

but in terms of talent? through 9 yrs, Reggie scored more points on fewer shots, committed fewer TOs, identical rebounder, look at the TS dif - Reggie also has a huge edge in WSAA (dont understand how Rip is negative, it's such a weird/bad stat)

through 9 yrs Reggie has missed many fewer games and also has played more minutes - reggie is a mUCH better 3pt threat (through 9 yrs, nearly 40% on 4.2 a game, lol, that is ****in sick!) whereas rip is 34.5% (roughly average) on 1.5 attempts (meaning he picks his spots and is still mediocre)

reggie goes to the line 1.2 times more a game, fouls less often..

don't know how else to say it, but, no, they are both shooters, except reggie is much better. but thats not the debate, you mentioned their similarities, and Reggie is a lower usage player (22.4%) whereas Rip is featured in his offense (26.9%).

Pretty much the only thing Rip does better, and it's not even that much better, is pass. (hell, reggie forces more TOs!)

/end rant

note that i know you didnt mean they are similar in terms of effectiveness, given Reggie was a 1st round pick and Rip was a 3rd round pick (and i think both deserve those slots) but in terms of play styles Reggie just did alot more in a lot less, if that makes sense. (If Rip was a better 3pt shooter, than his game would parallel reggie miller)
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:12 PM   #7534
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

mookie, i tought he'd slip. awful offensive player for this pick, clark. good defender tho. bad shooter - i had him as my 5th best PG available. doesn't his .488 TS scare you? also, for someone who was ineffective as he was offensively, he shot too much. (well, an average amount at a bad clip, i should say) im not sure if his game meshes that great with ewing. mookie to lance is a decent pnr, but defenders will be able to cheat on both guys.

i think you're overvaluing defense right now, but who knows.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:14 PM   #7535
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

so is this draft all about PER and TS?
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:16 PM   #7536
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ThaSaltCracka View Post
so is this draft all about PER and TS?
No but when you have Ewing and Nance it's nice to have a PG who can shoot, right now I assume Clark is going to try to pick some 3 pt specialists later, we will see who is available.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:17 PM   #7537
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ThaSaltCracka View Post
so is this draft all about PER and TS?
No but really bad of either are usually pretty striking. That TS is really, really low. Mookie is an excellent defender, offensively he's bad, not Ben Wallace on O bad but pretty inefficient. I honestly don't mind the pick. I also think PG D is overrated b/c great post players can make up for a lot of their deficiencies.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:18 PM   #7538
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Him and Payton are probally the two best stealers in the league and he's also a very good overall D. Not a rediculous passer but a good one. Rebound numbers are also good for a PG. Pretty inefficient though and probally why he fell so far (49% TS%).
will add mookie has one of the coolest first names, so thats a plus. just to highlight his non offensive game tho.. (sorry clark)

34.9 career mpg got to the line fewer than twice a game (1.9) - managed to take nearly 13 shots (12.9) at a 40.9% FG/33.6% 3pt (not awful) clip. although he was a pass first PG, he still averaged fewer than 7 a game per 36mins - his best year (26 yr old) was 9.7 per 36, which is alright, but mostly was within the 6-7 range. got hurt towards the end of his career, too. good thing you get him @24, you miss his crummy 1st 2 years as a net.

the nice offensive features are that his 3:1 A/To ratio is solid, and even tho 33.6 3pt is low, he did take more than 4 a game so you'd assume if he took less 3s he'd be more efficient. (obv) plus, atlanta didn't really have any low post option, whereas with ewing you'd expect he'd be freed up a LITTLE more. he also forced more TOs than he himself commits, which is a GREAT thing.

for someone who made 6 all defensive teams, his DRtg isn't stellar. (105, which is a knock above avg for a small guy) anyway, i feel this is a reach, IMO.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:20 PM   #7539
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
Ugh Clark, don't like that at all.

edit: I mean it's ok but you have Ewing/Nance, now you pick up a PG who can't really shoot? He's a good distributor and very solid defensively but there are better offensive options here IMO. So I guess "Meh Clark, could have been better".
I think you mean "you're better than that".
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:21 PM   #7540
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

does pace count for anything?...cuz I think that is a HUGE reason to why RIPS numbers are not as big as they should be.

Hes the opposite of Antwan Jamison (whereas Jamisons numbers seem to be inflated)....RIPs are lower imo due to his team and the way they play slow tempo basketball. I thnk the word im looking for is PACE...and Detroit has very slow one at that.

RIP is not a dime a dozen - not at all. There are alot of catch and shoot guys (i agree)...but....not is RIP one of the top catch and shoot guys in the game - but hes got soooo much more to offer than just that.

I understand not many people like RIP...tbh Im not a big fan of the Pistons period...but can you really argue with with what he has brought to the table? RIP does a lot of things above average...meaning defense and offense. Like I said before - hes not a one trick pony...this guy can not only tire out his defenders - but is relentless on defense...some call him dirty but I call it experience and savvy....he knows what to do to win.

Please dont call him a catch a shoot player - becuz hes far more than just that. This guy can slash very well - he can shoot the 3 point shot at an above average percent and is a very good finisher...you get him the ball 18 feet in - you can count on him either getting to the line or finding a way to finish.

Again - RIPs numbers dont tell the whole story...and Im surprised anyone would even refute this.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:21 PM   #7541
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by .Alex. View Post
Alright, **** it, I'm taking Rashard Lewis. Lanky, athletic force that should be perfect for draining kick out threes in my offense. Write-up coming shortly.
Cool pick. I wanted him to slip. his year with the magic this year im chalking off to just a poor year, he was so much better in seattle. and it's weird, bc he had less offensive pressure this year given dwight commanded a double alot, whereas in seattle it was the ray and rashard show, so i dont know why his numbers dropped. one of the best 3pt threats for sure.

pairing him with kobe and big al is really neat, actually - i think you may have the best offensive team right now. (i dunno, but maybe)
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:23 PM   #7542
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ThaSaltCracka View Post
so is this draft all about PER and TS?
huh? actually, i gave reasons as to why i felt it was a bad pick, backed up by stats, but also by play observations. namely, mookie's strength is forcing TOs and playing a conservative offensive game. with nance (great guy to throw alley oops or so force) and ewing (guy you need to free to operate in the post) and neither pressure defense (more half court set) I think it's a bad fit.

PER / TS / etc. are very useful tools tho.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:24 PM   #7543
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Cool pick. I wanted him to slip. his year with the magic this year im chalking off to just a poor year, he was so much better in seattle. and it's weird, bc he had less offensive pressure this year given dwight commanded a double alot, whereas in seattle it was the ray and rashard show, so i dont know why his numbers dropped. one of the best 3pt threats for sure.

pairing him with kobe and big al is really neat, actually - i think you may have the best offensive team right now. (i dunno, but maybe)
I think the problem with playing him in Orlando is they tried him at PF where he is clearly a natural SF, this prob tired him out defensively. Oops realized I can't say the rest due to undrafted players... anyway I think Orlando does not utilize him well.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:26 PM   #7544
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Any chance we go on a sick pick run tonight?

I'm down for a pick party.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:27 PM   #7545
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think the problem with playing him in Orlando is they tried him at PF where he is clearly a natural SF, this prob tired him out defensively. Oops realized I can't say the rest due to undrafted players... anyway I think Orlando does not utilize him well.
They didn't try him he was forced b/c of the injury to Battie for most/all of the season. He's good I like him but as you pointed out defensively he can't and shouldn't play the 4.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:27 PM   #7546
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

sorry Bobbo, it may look like I am targeting you. I have seen a lot of people say stuff like : Player X because of X TS and X PER

Like its the tell all for evaluating a player.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:31 PM   #7547
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by SHARK DOCTOR View Post
does pace count for anything?...cuz I think that is a HUGE reason to why RIPS numbers are not as big as they should be.

Hes the opposite of Antwan Jamison (whereas Jamisons numbers seem to be inflated)....RIPs are lower imo due to his team and the way they play slow tempo basketball. I thnk the word im looking for is PACE...and Detroit has very slow one at that.
actually, washington played a very slow pace this year, too. plus, there are some stats that ignore pace (or separate them, i should say).

Quote:

RIP is not a dime a dozen - not at all. There are alot of catch and shoot guys (i agree)...but....not is RIP one of the top catch and shoot guys in the game - but hes got soooo much more to offer than just that.
yeah, i agree. he shoulders alot of the offensive load for the pistons, and can actually create alot more for himself than people expect.

Quote:

I understand not many people like RIP...tbh Im not a big fan of the Pistons period...but can you really argue with with what he has brought to the table? RIP does a lot of things above average...meaning defense and offense. Like I said before - hes not a one trick pony...this guy can not only tire out his defenders - but is relentless on defense...some call him dirty but I call it experience and savvy....he knows what to do to win.
I don't think too many people are saying he's 1 dimensional. In fact, he's a better defender than most of the other 2s taken this round.

Quote:

Please dont call him a catch a shoot player - becuz hes far more than just that. This guy can slash very well - he can shoot the 3 point shot at an above average percent and is a very good finisher...you get him the ball 18 feet in - you can count on him either getting to the line or finding a way to finish.
no, he's NOT a good 3pt shooter. thats where a lot of his value falls off. he's never shot more than 2 a game, and career wise is just about average. he's gotten better the past few years, but when you get him (@24) he shot 26.9% from 3s. lol.

Quote:

Again - RIPs numbers dont tell the whole story...and Im surprised anyone would even refute this.
but they actually tell a great story. he does get to the line more than a typical catch and shoot guy bc yeah, he does drive, but when you say he is a 3pt threat, im not buying it!
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:32 PM   #7548
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

who cares he's a dirty little douche bag
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:36 PM   #7549
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ThaSaltCracka View Post
sorry Bobbo, it may look like I am targeting you. I have seen a lot of people say stuff like : Player X because of X TS and X PER

Like its the tell all for evaluating a player.
Yeah, I am very guilty of this, but I also like to think I know the play styles and certainly am very open to making reasonable guesses about certain players playing better (or worse) with other players. And here, Mookie just doesn't do what I thought Clark needed.

Some people have cautioned making quick / snap judgments based on only 3, so clearly Clark has a great foundation, but offensively I just think his team is very weak at this point.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:38 PM   #7550
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 3, Pick 111: Rashard Lewis





I was planning to pick up a premier defender here, but I couldn't pass up the value of such an elite scorer and a great addition to the offensive scheme. Unlike some others, I do not believe there is a huge abundance of scoring in this draft, and when all of us have will have one or two superstars and shutdown defenders, the difference will be who can create offense from other places. Lewis fits in perfectly as a three point shooter (career .390 from beyond the arc) receiving kick outs from Kobe and Big Al and as an execellent third option when the first two are getting locked down or having off nights. He has a TS% of .565, very good for a shooter and a solid PER of 18.1 that has already broken 20 twice. Notice how I have the ability to go small with Lewis and Jefferson at the 4 and 5 if I want to run a little bit.

Defensively, Lewis is better than the numbers indicate. He was always one of the top one or two in defensive win shares on his defensively miserable Sonics teams. Once he went to Orlando, that number immediately jumped to double digits despite playing out of position for most of the year at PF. His D-rating and win shares was higher earlier in his career when his usage was lower and he could concentrate on defense, something that will also be the case in my system. The way I see it, I now have two tall, athletic wing defenders who should make it tough to slash into the paint.

Team so far:

Kobe Bryant - SG
Al Jefferson - PF
Rashard Lewis - SF

Last edited by .Alex.; 05-26-2008 at 09:44 PM.
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