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Old 05-26-2008, 06:36 PM   #7401
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
all,

how do you feel about martin's injury? as jack pointed out, the guy looks like he's ready to be broken in half. i <3 him so i hope he doesn't go down the injury path, but it's surely a concern.
Isn't it just a hamstring? He will be fine once the season starts up
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:37 PM   #7402
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Calderon is a reach but a really sick fit for this team, ideal situation would have been to try to trade down a few slots but thats a hassle.

This team, offensively, is just as good as any other at this point IMO. There is no team that can really match up well on Dirk/Booze and you have a really efficient point (both at not turning it over and at shooting).
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:37 PM   #7403
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I really like Martin but he's really just a great jump shooter.
No, JoA, he's not. I've watched a decent number of Kings games, and he has the entire scoring package. Well, he doesn't have a post game bc he's so thin. But he's good offball, he's good off a screen, he can catch and shoot, he can ball handle to get to the hoop, he can finish around the rim, and he's also an elite outside threat.

The only knock on his offensive game is lack of a passing ability, other guys like TMac or Kobe (better SGs, basically) possess that playmaking ability, and I think he could develop one.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:38 PM   #7404
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah, I conceded the jump shooting thing. I think I was getting tricked by the fact that he can't pass.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:39 PM   #7405
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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under what criteria do you feel he's better than a decent amount of the 2nd round picks?

I love Kmart, he will be a stud, and already is one in his own right, but you can't dismiss his knocks:
He's just 23, and only has 2 v good seasons under his belt
In his 4 seasons, he's missed 70 games already. (And may be somewhat injury prone)
He's never guarded the best player - hell, he always takes the easy assignment bc of Artest - and has a 110 DRtg with poor defensive numbers. (Even though he's 6'7 he has trouble guarding physical guys bc he's thin)
For someone who has the ball in his hands a decent amount, he doesn't know how to pass. Right now, when he has the ball, he's looking to pop, drive, spin, whatever. That's alright, especially because he's great at it, but he's not a good late game ball handler simply bc his decision making process isn't wonderful.

That said, I've seen him jam some vicious dunks, his shot is v sweet, for a guy who is known as a shooter he draws a TON of fouls, etc. He is a great 2nd scoring option.

I do agree tho better SG than some of the guys taken THIS round.
Everyone obv has knocks, obv injuries are a concern but there have been plenty of skiny guys who have had long careers in the NBA, I don't feel like hes that injury prone at all.

Obv his defense isn't great but I think its better than a lot of you are giving it credit for, it's not like hes Kiki. He also has the potential to be a good defender with his combination of size/speed. I will also obv be drafting a defender at the other spot who will guard the tougher matchups at SG/SF so he doesn't have to.

His passing isn't as bad as you think it is, hes obv not an amazing passer but hes not awful either. A lot of his scoring is done off the ball (moving off the ball), but when he actually drives, he can pass the ball.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:40 PM   #7406
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

offensively, martin is a great fit for ePeen's team. he's a prototypical player to be a 2nd/3rd option, just not a 1st imo.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:40 PM   #7407
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also I think KMart is legit one of the best picks of the draft. I thought he was easily a mid second round value.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:41 PM   #7408
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I prob would've taken Oakley had I not traded down. All of these guys except Calderon are good picks.
Yeah, well... you're just saying that because you're old. And your team is full of old people too. Hey, if you need a PG, I think Bob Cousy is still available.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:41 PM   #7409
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Thx for the tip. I told you I didn't know much but I feel like this team could run big or small pretty well.
haha np yeah, I think Dtemp made 2 good choices in terms of BPA, but really it was the worst pairing simply bc although you CAN go small or big, moving Dirk outside the 4 will hurt him. Both just cry out "4" although again Dirk is a little more flexible. (You may have trouble if you go small with agile 3s that slash well, Boozer is not a good help defender but is ok in the post so you would be in trouble if you played Dirk at the 5, too)

I like Calderon, again, bc he addresses a need for your team, is incredibly low turnover, v good shooter, etc.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:41 PM   #7410
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eP70gl5VD1o&feature=related

imo.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:43 PM   #7411
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

**** **** ****

I went to college with Kevin, first game I ever saw him play he dropped 49 on some team. I was going to take him here and line him up at the 2 (with Robertson at PG) or at the 3 (with Robertson as the SG).

Good pick, I'll have mine up in a few.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:43 PM   #7412
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Everyone obv has knocks, obv injuries are a concern but there have been plenty of skiny guys who have had long careers in the NBA, I don't feel like hes that injury prone at all.

Obv his defense isn't great but I think its better than a lot of you are giving it credit for, it's not like hes Kiki. He also has the potential to be a good defender with his combination of size/speed. I will also obv be drafting a defender at the other spot who will guard the tougher matchups at SG/SF so he doesn't have to.

His passing isn't as bad as you think it is, hes obv not an amazing passer but hes not awful either. A lot of his scoring is done off the ball (moving off the ball), but when he actually drives, he can pass the ball.
this makes me wonder whether you've seen him play. his defense is bad, he gets banged up easily, and he can't pass.

the things bobbo brought up regarding his positive skills are all true, and i think you should take it as such. a "better than most" pick for the 3rd round, and i think he could be a great fit on your team, provided the mix is right.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:43 PM   #7413
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Wow that's a ridiculously sick pass, Kevin Martin ftw
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:43 PM   #7414
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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you guys actually like kevin martin? who has actually seen more than like one or two kings games in the last two seasons? i know they dont get national games anymore.
Again, being the NBA junky i am, i saw a bunch of kings games. Kevin Martin is near elite offensively. He was their #1 option, and I'm not quite sold he can be a #1 yet, with Epi he is the 2 or 3, which is fantastic. The kings weren't really a good defensive team, and the problems stemmed from Martin and weak PG play, since the 3-4-5 were all actually quite fine (in sum) defensively.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:45 PM   #7415
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I agree that Oakley is more of a role player. But he is a great role player who brings a lot to the table. He isn't great offensively, but he isn't a black hole and I will be fine with him scoring 12 or 14 points.

With all the great big man in the draft it was very important for me to get a great rebounder/defender down low.

No way he would have lasted until my next pick, so I had to pull the trigger. Good value, not insane value. Better pick than guys like Chandler and Biedrins though imo.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:45 PM   #7416
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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this makes me wonder whether you've seen him play. his defense is bad, he gets banged up easily, and he can't pass.

the things bobbo brought up regarding his positive skills are all true, and i think you should take it as such. a "better than most" pick for the 3rd round, and i think he could be a great fit on your team, provided the mix is right.
No I have seen him play, he obv gets banged easily, but I will have him playing at SG, and there are not a ton of SG's who post up a lot, and even though he gets banged easily, he still will have the height advantage over almost every SG so he can still alter their shot sometimes. He obv isn't a great passer, but he did average 2 assists a game and he doesn't really take his man off the dribble all the time (infact most of the time hes running off screens off catch and shoots, so passing is not a huge deal there).
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:45 PM   #7417
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
My list:

Eddie Jones
Kevin Martin
Joe Johnson
Michael Redd
Mark Aguirre
Alvin Robertson
Michael Finley
Dale Ellis

Note: Not really sure about Alvin Robertson, he could be a lot higher than i'm placing him.
I'm not positive I'd put martin over redd yet. They're incredibly similar players and have similar values. The big plus Redd has is no injury problems and longer track record - this counts for something.
I think both are better than JJ tho.

I don't mind the rest of your list, whatsoever, but Alvin needs to be higher. He and EJ are significantly better on defense than those other guys.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:46 PM   #7418
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Taking oakley here is such a steal. I like him better than just about every PF taken this round. He owns the **** out of the defensive glass and will hurt people on defense. A little on the slow side but this looks like it might be a murderous half-court team.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:46 PM   #7419
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
Also, on the JJ pick (which I think was great). Which comparable players do people think he should of been picked before?

Alvin Robertson
Michael Redd
Eddie Jones
Mark Aguirre
Michael Finley
Dale Ellis
Eddie Jones = Mark Aguirre
Alvin Robertson
.
Michael Redd
.
Joe Johnson
Michael Finley
Kevin Martin
Dale Ellis

imo.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:46 PM   #7420
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also imo:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HrOqvVWe7z8
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:47 PM   #7421
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Did I really get the worst out of that group in Dale Ellis?
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:48 PM   #7422
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

HSP,

If you had not taken Starbury this could be a really nice team.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:49 PM   #7423
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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His passing isn't as bad as you think it is, hes obv not an amazing passer but hes not awful either. A lot of his scoring is done off the ball (moving off the ball), but when he actually drives, he can pass the ball.
no, his passing really is weak. And artest/kmart brought the ball up alot ("ran point") in alot of theus' set plays. so he had his opportunities. mainly bc the dude they were using at PG for the bulk of PG mins is better offball and not a good creator whatsoever. he and another guy ran a nifty play often on that team.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:49 PM   #7424
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm not positive I'd put martin over redd yet. They're incredibly similar players and have similar values. The big plus Redd has is no injury problems and longer track record - this counts for something.
I think both are better than JJ tho.

I don't mind the rest of your list, whatsoever, but Alvin needs to be higher. He and EJ are significantly better on defense than those other guys.
eh I think Johnson/Redd/Martin are all ridiculously close to each other, I just give the slight edge to Martin because he is a good amount more efficent.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:49 PM   #7425
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
I agree that Oakley is more of a role player. But he is a great role player who brings a lot to the table. He isn't great offensively, but he isn't a black hole and I will be fine with him scoring 12 or 14 points.

With all the great big man in the draft it was very important for me to get a great rebounder/defender down low.

No way he would have lasted until my next pick, so I had to pull the trigger. Good value, not insane value. Better pick than guys like Chandler and Biedrins though imo.
I think you should be emphasizing the fact that should any team try to play rough against you, Oak is gonna slap seven shades of **** out of them.
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