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Old 05-08-2008, 06:27 PM   #701
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by fanmail View Post
So the guy everyone was talking about gets picked 12th, hmm, big surprise there. Not saying he wasn't intending to pick him anyway, but we'll never know. It's a draft for a reason - personal opinions. If we wanted to just list the 100 best players in order, that's what we would be doing instead.
FWIW I agree with this 100% and have tried my best to stop people from talking about players, but as you see people havn't listened whatsoever.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:31 PM   #702
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by BiiiiigChips View Post
You're joking right?
The NBA's talent is way better now than it was 20 years ago. Part of that was indeed due to the Birds, Magics, and Jordans of the world, as when they were kids playing basketball wasn't as "cool" as baseball for example. But they changed that and the generation that grew up in the 80s wanted to play basketball. It created a much bigger talent pool. Then you factor in increased training and specialized teams at younger ages and these kids have way more preparation than before. And thats not even mentioning the biggest reason why the NBA's talent is deeper now than ever before: Globization of the game. An entirely new talent pool has been dipped into creating a much better talent base overall.

Of course everyone who grew up watching basketball in the 80s will swear they were so great back then and kids today lack fundamentals and don't play defense and crap like that when in reality its just the opposite.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:33 PM   #703
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Lebron had to go through an elite team...the Pistons, and Lebron destroyed them single handedly. Everyone was saying they were elite this year, well they basacally have the same team they had last year except one year older with a slightly stronger bench.

And also, huge lol @ not comparing Lebron to Michael in terms of age, but in terms of years in the league. Like seriously wtf? I'm speachless. Lebron has been better up to this point in his career age wise compared to Michael, if that will continue who knows, but Lebron certainly has the potential to make sure it does, its up to him if he does it or not.

And Kobe played with Shaq when Kobe wasn't in his prime, and they still won a bunch of Championships in a short period of time.
The Pistons are a solid squad but not an all-time elite team or dynasty like the 80s celtics were. MJ Dropped 47 and 63 in the first two games of his series with Boston when they were in their glory years and his team still got swept. MJ did all he could do but Boston wasn't gonna let him beat them alone. He killed the Celtics but the Celtics just had a better team. Lebron goes crazy on the Pistons and the Pistons let one guy beat them. The Pistons are no where on the level those Celtics teams were so don't even try it.

As far as the age comparison you can still compare exact ages and I'd take Jordan at the same age to the day as Lebron every time.

Prime or not (which is a already a loose definition) Jordan never played with a player as dominant as Shaq. So you can't say that Jordan had a better cast than Kobe. As far as Lebron he clearly has the least help of the 3.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:33 PM   #704
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
The NBA's talent is way better now than it was 20 years ago. Part of that was indeed due to the Birds, Magics, and Jordans of the world, as when they were kids playing basketball wasn't as "cool" as baseball for example. But they changed that and the generation that grew up in the 80s wanted to play basketball. It created a much bigger talent pool. Then you factor in increased training and specialized teams at younger ages and these kids have way more preparation than before. And thats not even mentioning the biggest reason why the NBA's talent is deeper now than ever before: Globization of the game. An entirely new talent pool has been dipped into creating a much better talent base overall.

Of course everyone who grew up watching basketball in the 80s will swear they were so great back then and kids today lack fundamentals and don't play defense and crap like that when in reality its just the opposite.
Thank you for saying like the exact same thing I said lol. I am glad someone else actually can realize the simple concepts of what I said though and actually agrees.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:34 PM   #705
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Seriously how much better is Chris Paul even to a say Deron Williams or even Jason Kidd in his prime? Then to make the huuuuuuuuge stretch and take him over HOFers like Isiah and Stockton is crazy. CP3 is good but wow, better than Isiah, Jason Kidd and John Stockton?
-The season CP3 just had is better than any season they ever had

-CP3 was 22 years old this season and in his 3rd year

-Usually players improve from where they were at age 22 and from their 3rd year in the league.



Yes its a riskier pick for sure, but I don't the "OMG" reactions from some. In my opinion the reasoning for the pick makes total sense.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:36 PM   #706
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Ashy Knuckles View Post
damn, i should of kept my mouth shut. now isiah is gone
LOL. Before the #3 pick was made a friend of mine and I discussed on AIM that Isiah would probably be the best player left at 15 unless someone above me screws up. Don't give yourself too much credit :-P
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:37 PM   #707
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

You two (Assani and Epip) are funny.

Let me help.

Legitimate argument: "Way more international players in the league now."

Absurd argument with no basis in reality other than it sounds kind of cool and is possibly plausible as an anecdotal concept: "It wasn't cool to play basketball til the 80's. People grew up wanting to play ball because of the 'Jordan effect'."

Last edited by ClarkNasty; 05-08-2008 at 06:38 PM. Reason: I'm not even saying you guys are necessarily wrong. But your arguments suck.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:37 PM   #708
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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WTF. You guys let me down sometimes. Where is the hate for the Karl Malone pick? I would take Stockton waaaaay before Malone. I don't know, I could never stand those Jazz teams, so Im obv biased, but there are like 10 guys I would take before Malone b/c I think he's massively overrated because he got to play with a top 3 PG of all time for his entire career.

Plus, since this league will take place now instead of 15-20 years ago, you are only going to get like 2-3 years out of him before his pedo ass ends up on Dateline NBC/in prison.

D
We had this debate already in the regular season thread about the myth of a player "making other players better" and I was soundly on the side of it being a myth. A bunch of solid arguments were presented, but I don't feel like regurgatating(sp?) them now.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:39 PM   #709
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by BiiiiigChips View Post
The Pistons are a solid squad but not an all-time elite team or dynasty like the 80s celtics were. MJ Dropped 47 and 63 in the first two games of his series with Boston when they were in their glory years and his team still got swept. MJ did all he could do but Boston wasn't gonna let him beat them alone. He killed the Celtics but the Celtics just had a better team. Lebron goes crazy on the Pistons and the Pistons let one guy beat them. The Pistons are no where on the level those Celtics teams were so don't even try it.

As far as the age comparison you can still compare exact ages and I'd take Jordan at the same age to the day as Lebron every time.

Prime or not (which is a already a loose definition) Jordan never played with a player as dominant as Shaq. So you can't say that Jordan had a better cast than Kobe. As far as Lebron he clearly has the least help of the 3.
I'm wondering why you left Jordan's game 3 performance out. Oh wait, it's cause he only scored 19 points, shocking that you left that out though.

Of course the Pistons weren't as good as the Celtics, but the Pistons are still an elite team.

If Kobe played in his prime with Shaq in his prime, that Lakers team would be unbeatable. Kobe even when he wasn't in his prime, was still a top 5 player in the NBA at the time, and they won a bunch of titles.

Sure Pippen wasn't as dominate as Shaq, but Pippen was still very dominate and a top 5 player in the 1990s.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:39 PM   #710
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
FWIW I agree with this 100% and have tried my best to stop people from talking about players, but as you see people havn't listened whatsoever.
Agreed that it defeats the purpose to talk about players who haven't been drafted. However, I was taking Malone at 12 no matter what so people throwing his name out there had zero influence on my pick.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:40 PM   #711
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
You two (Assani and Epip) are funny.

Let me help.

Legitimate argument: "Way more international players in the league now."

Absurd argument with no basis in reality other than it sounds kind of cool and is possibly plausible as an anecdotal concept: "It wasn't cool to play basketball til the 80's. People grew up wanting to play ball because of the 'Jordan effect'."
I never said it wasn't cool (that was Assani) but if you really don't think Jordan had a huge impact on tons more kids playing basketball than normal, you are out of your mind.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:40 PM   #712
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
You two (Assani and Epip) are funny.

Let me help.

Legitimate argument: "Way more international players in the league now."

Absurd argument with no basis in reality other than it sounds kind of cool and is possibly plausible as an anecdotal concept: "It wasn't cool to play basketball til the 80's. People grew up wanting to play ball because of the 'Jordan effect'."
Also, shouldn't expansion all but negate the influx of new players?
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:41 PM   #713
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post

Sure Pippen wasn't as dominate as Shaq,
Dominant. Peeve of mine.

And stop talking about guys who haven't been drafted yet! Zomg.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:41 PM   #714
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

You're talking about Stockton like he was crap on the defensive end. The man led the league in steals twice.

Also, he led the league in assists per for 9 YEARS while only missing 4 games during that period.


At any rate, you're not hurting at the PG position with either guy.


D
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:42 PM   #715
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by SHARK DOCTOR View Post
wow - assani - how do u keep sayin yes to people who want to join in now?

We already have a list of 35 GMs and it cant go higher than that, Im sorry.

We've already denied 3 or 4 people - and if we say yes to AC Cobra, it wouldnt be fair to those who were already denied...I dont mean to sound like an ahole - but theres no way we can continue to keep adding GMs to the list and actually expect to finish this draft before Christmas.

Assani - do u understand any of this?...I thought you did after the PMs we sent to each other earlier.

The list of GMs is alrwady set - who ever is on the list...IS THE LIST.
1. You PMed me and expressed concern about the growing number of players.

2. I wrote you back and said that I understood your point but disagreed, so I was going to ask what others thought and go with the concensus

3. The concensus was a mixed bag, but mostly they felt as if we could let a few more in. Several people even said 40 was ok.

4. I wrote in this thread that after considering everyone's views that I would cut it off at 40. However if someone drops off after we get 40, then we cna add another to bring it back up to 40.

5. I really wish that we could edit our own posts as this would be a ton easier, but since we can't I have to ask a mod to edit your post everytime someone wants to join.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:42 PM   #716
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

Anyone who thinks Zeke > Stockton is certifiable.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:44 PM   #717
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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And stop talking about guys who haven't been drafted yet! Zomg.
I think this thread is considerably worse without being able to talk about undrafted players. How else are we supposed to critique picks?
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:44 PM   #718
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Dominant. Peeve of mine.

And stop talking about guys who haven't been drafted yet! Zomg.
Whatever I tried to stop people from talking about players who hadn't been drafted but obv that didn't work, I really care very little about this league anymore, it's gone way downhill and the draft will probably be finished by september.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:44 PM   #719
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I agree with this, there are way too many people in already and it's been like 4 days already and we are only on the 13th pick (and these are the easiest picks in the draft, wait til we get a few rounds deep and the picks get harder), this draft is going to take like 4+ months as is, which is ridiculous.
I asked for opinions a day ago and you didn't say a word. Now after I get opinions and make a decision you speak up?

I'm trying my very best here to listen to what everyone wants. I'm getting a ton of input(some even from people who aren't in the draft), I'm having people break rules by talking about players not yet drafted, and I'm getting requests to boot some people out.


Please try to make things easier on me here guys. The decision has been made to cap it at 40. Thats final.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:46 PM   #720
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
The NBA's talent is way better now than it was 20 years ago. Part of that was indeed due to the Birds, Magics, and Jordans of the world, as when they were kids playing basketball wasn't as "cool" as baseball for example. But they changed that and the generation that grew up in the 80s wanted to play basketball. It created a much bigger talent pool. Then you factor in increased training and specialized teams at younger ages and these kids have way more preparation than before. And thats not even mentioning the biggest reason why the NBA's talent is deeper now than ever before: Globization of the game. An entirely new talent pool has been dipped into creating a much better talent base overall.

Of course everyone who grew up watching basketball in the 80s will swear they were so great back then and kids today lack fundamentals and don't play defense and crap like that when in reality its just the opposite.
I look at an NBA roster now and i see the same thing i saw in the 80s. 1 or 2 top flight players if you are a lucky. A few solid second tier guys and then a bunch of role players. I really don't see the top sevens on each team now being dramatically better than top sevens in the 80s.

You guys are acting like it's a night and day difference and the teams now can go 10 deep if they want. It's definitley not as a dramatic of a difference as you are making it out to be. Like I said Jordan as an old man still dropped 20+ a game in those two season with the wiz. You really think he wouldn't have his normal 30 + a game if played now in his prime? Serioulsy, get real.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:47 PM   #721
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I asked for opinions a day ago and you didn't say a word. Now after I get opinions and make a decision you speak up?

I'm trying my very best here to listen to what everyone wants. I'm getting a ton of input(some even from people who aren't in the draft), I'm having people break rules by talking about players not yet drafted, and I'm getting requests to boot some people out.


Please try to make things easier on me here guys. The decision has been made to cap it at 40. Thats final.
That's because at the time of u asking I had no problem with letting more people in. I thought the draft would be moving faster than it has been. Since it has been moving at a snails pace, I changed my mind (omg someone changed their mind) and decided we def shouldn't let anyone else in, cause the draft is taking so ridiculously long as is.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:48 PM   #722
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
I think this thread is considerably worse without being able to talk about undrafted players. How else are we supposed to critique picks?
This is true for the first roudn, but in subsequent rounds the picks will be more about complementing the players already on one's team, and less about who is the best player left.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:50 PM   #723
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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I look at an NBA roster now and i see the same thing i saw in the 80s. 1 or 2 top flight players if you are a lucky. A few solid second tier guys and then a bunch of role players. I really don't see the top sevens on each team now being dramatically better than top sevens in the 80s.

You guys are acting like it's a night and day difference and the teams now can go 10 deep if they want. It's definitley not as a dramatic of a difference as you are making it out to be. Like I said Jordan as an old man still dropped 20+ a game in those two season with the wiz. You really think he wouldn't have his normal 30 + a game if played now in his prime? Serioulsy, get real.
Expansion teams. Please tell me where someone said Jordan wouldn't be able to drop 30+ points on the Wizards, I just pointed out that the league is harder overall than it was in the 90's mostly. Why do you keep bringing up the 80's like Jordan won a ton of championships during that era, will you at least acknowledge the league was a lot harder now than it was in the 90's?

I swear you guys need to learn what the words slightly and probably mean as well.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:51 PM   #724
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

I've seen about 10 posts regarding this issue, so let me quote what was posted in the initial rules:

Quote:
I'm not going to enforce a strict time limit on each pick. It will be a casual draft, and its ok if it takes us a long time to complete.


Seriously everyone just sit back, relax, and enjoy this thing. If someone doens't pick for a few days then spend that time discussing whatever tangent we're currently debating. Its not that big of a deal.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:53 PM   #725
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
I think this thread is considerably worse without being able to talk about undrafted players. How else are we supposed to critique picks?
Yeah this rule is kidn of silly. I know guys that I'm definitley not going to bring up because they aren't obvious picks. All decade type players are really the only names I've seen being talked about and those are obvious. I don't think anyone is gonna forget about Isiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, etc. I mean come seriously we don't have to make a big deal about that. I think if your'e dumb enough to bring up someone who's really good but not obvious or you think will fall to you if you don't say anything then it's up to you. Basically if you don't want their name out there don't say it. I don't think there should be a rule talking about undrafted players but also don't think random people not picking in the draft should just come in and blab "someone should pick X player next" if that makes sense to everyone.
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