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Old 05-25-2008, 06:13 PM   #6876
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lolllll xorb wins at life
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:36 PM   #6877
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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McHale didn't have good teammates. Larry Bird and Parish had good teammates.
A+
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:44 PM   #6878
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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It'd have to be woeful roster if Parker + Ginobili + the rest can't get you 40 wins. This is the point you're missing with your Marbury crusades.
Sorry I was kind of unclear, I meant Parker OR Ginobili, not both. Anyway my point is that the talent and efficiency perceptions of many players including Marbury are skewed, because those players' careers have been spent either in optimal or extremely suboptimal situations. I think it's a virtual certainty that if Marbury had spent even some of his career on top teams he would be more hihgly regarded than he is now. And obviously since we are getting players at age 24 it is illogical to assign value to a player based on the caliber of his actual teams and whether he was effectively utilized. We are drafting coaches, so we kind of have to accept the premise that the coaching, gameplan, and team construction will all influence players' values.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:49 PM   #6879
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

There are 5 guys who I am targetting for my next pick. As long as one of them falls to me, I'm a happy camper.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:52 PM   #6880
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Joe Johnson is what makes the Michael Redd pick look bad imo.

I wouldve taken Joe had he dropped to me.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:52 PM   #6881
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think it's a virtual certainty that if Marbury had spent even some of his career on top teams he would be more hihgly regarded than he is now.
if he sucked less he would have played for more successful teams.

drafting coaches is the dumbest part of this thing since other than a select few none of us really know dick about how well they gameplan, utilize talent, etc.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:56 PM   #6882
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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if he sucked less he would have played for more successful teams.

drafting coaches is the dumbest part of this thing since other than a select few none of us really know dick about how well they gameplan, utilize talent, etc.
but we can all speculate! which is fun.
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Old 05-25-2008, 07:44 PM   #6883
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Like the JJ pick a lot. His TS numbers are decent for a bulk guy, he seems to play ok D, and is a playmaker at that position. He was the guy I was hoping would slip, but I guess not with Clark about to snatch him up.

JJ is like PaulP, only slightly worse.... but still PaulP was a steal at the end of the first, and JJ is good solid value right now.... imo.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:04 PM   #6884
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
if he sucked less he would have played for more successful teams.

drafting coaches is the dumbest part of this thing since other than a select few none of us really know dick about how well they gameplan, utilize talent, etc.
There's a lot of top players who spent a ton of time on bad teams. Look at KG, picked #9, he only got past the first round once before this year. His one playoff run with Minnesota was only after they significantly improved their roster, and obviously this year he's playing with Pierce and Allen. If KG couldn't get past the first round without a good supporting cast (he's also played two more seasons than Marbury), it's totally plausible that this has held Marbury back too. McGrady is another guy who's never gotten past the first round, even though he's easily been on better teams than Marbury. Brand made the playoffs once out of eight seasons playing for the Bulls and Clippers. Sure, if they were LeBron maybe they could take a bad team in a weak conference to the finals, but that's why he was a top 3 pick. Marbury isn't a one of the five or so players in the modern era who can be a one man team, nobody's arguing that.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:13 PM   #6885
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I applaud the gusto it takes to argue with a straight face that KG held Marbury back.

A+
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:17 PM   #6886
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
There's a lot of top players who spent a ton of time on bad teams. Look at KG, picked #9, he only got past the first round once before this year. His one playoff run with Minnesota was only after they significantly improved their roster, and obviously this year he's playing with Pierce and Allen. If KG couldn't get past the first round without a good supporting cast (he's also played two more seasons than Marbury), it's totally plausible that this has held Marbury back too. McGrady is another guy who's never gotten past the first round, even though he's easily been on better teams than Marbury. Brand made the playoffs once out of eight seasons playing for the Bulls and Clippers. Sure, if they were LeBron maybe they could take a bad team in a weak conference to the finals, but that's why he was a top 3 pick. Marbury isn't a one of the five or so players in the modern era who can be a one man team, nobody's arguing that.
Doesn't this just prove that being on bad teams isn't responsible for Marbury's poor performance?
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:37 PM   #6887
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I would've taken Johnson (or Artest) with MJ. Pairing MJ with a point forward or a crazy guy = mad EV imo.

I just had a thought about why some people draft the way they do, even probably knowing its not that a great team - imagination is cooler than reality (lol even though this is all imagination, you know what I mean). Its fun thinking about a team like Gasol/Pierce/Miller running a triangle offense or a team like Bosh/Worthy/Baron running a 120 possession offense or Wade/Bynum turning into the next Kobe/Shaq. Theres probably some inner voice in your brain that says "history has proven that doesnt work that well" or "theres a huge chance we run into injury probs" but **** him. maybe this explains that absurd Marbury pick.

personally, this is why I am -meh- on picks like Camby and Grant with MJ and LeBron. I mean cmon, its ****ing MJ and LeBron! =\ oh well to each his own
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:41 PM   #6888
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

well, jj was first on my list. i had to decide between about 4 guys who all brought different specialties. my pick will be up in a few minutes tho.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:48 PM   #6889
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I can already tell who all u basketball reference junkies are salavating over btw.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:48 PM   #6890
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
I applaud the gusto it takes to argue with a straight face that KG held Marbury back.

A+
Thanks but that is not at all what I was arguing. I am talking about their whole careers not just those two seasons. Marbury and KG were both barely into the league, certainly not in their primes.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:50 PM   #6891
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

So am I in charge of dtemps' team?

If so I'd be interested in trading up. anyone with a pick soon pm me.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:51 PM   #6892
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I can already tell who all u basketball reference junkies are salavating over btw.
i almost took him.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:52 PM   #6893
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i almost took him.
heh
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:52 PM   #6894
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

hey nath since it seems you have his team do you mind just dropping me pm's periodically just to mull things over?
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:52 PM   #6895
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Prince pick is nice, great fit although I think there may have been a couple better choices here, Prince is really helpful on that squad.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:55 PM   #6896
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

at least the T-Mac's and KG's of the world actually carried winning teams for the majority of their seasons.. getting to the first round > 30win quagmires, imo.

Re: TayTay

I really like this guy. Haven't thought about alternatives, but he's the sorta I think some advanced stats tend to underrate. I'm just always impressed with how intelligent and solid he plays. Also nice to pick up some solid wing defense to make up for those matadors.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:56 PM   #6897
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Doesn't this just prove that being on bad teams isn't responsible for Marbury's poor performance?
No, each one of those players I mentioned would have been picked higher if they'd been on championship caliber teams, just like players like Parker and Ginobili would have been picked lower if they hadn't been so furtunatel. This is especially true for point guards, more so than centers and power forwards, because they are the distributors and if nobody can get open or hit open shots, like on the Knicks, then the point guard will have more turnovers, less assists, and have to shoot more, a la Marbury. The other reason Marbury shoots too much is because like I said earlier, overall he's had a pathetic lot of coaches who either didn't properly coach him or use an offensive scheme that played to his strengths.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:57 PM   #6898
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
hey nath since it seems you have his team do you mind just dropping me pm's periodically just to mull things over?
no prob; i can send you one now w/what i'm thinking if you're interested.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:57 PM   #6899
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I don't mind the Tayshaun pick, but again I really think role players of today are being way overvalued in this draft compared to role players of yesteryears.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:57 PM   #6900
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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at least the T-Mac's and KG's of the world actually carried winning teams for the majority of their seasons.. getting to the first round > 30win quagmires, imo.

Re: TayTay

I really like this guy. Haven't thought about alternatives, but he's the sorta I think some advanced stats tend to underrate. I'm just always impressed with how intelligent and solid he plays. Also nice to pick up some solid wing defense to make up for those matadors.
wait what? advanced stats actually underrate and overrate certain players? no ways.
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