Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done - Page 274 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

Pierce's career-worse DRTG is better (lower) than anything Johnson has put up in the last 5 years. Since his rookie year, Pierce has had only one year with fewer DWS than Johnson's career-high.

Yes I know Pierce is a better defender, I was just comparing their situations.

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05-25-2008 , 03:25 PM

#6827

EPiPeN11

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades

I'm not saying the effect isn't real, but how real is it? Do you think Manu would go from being one of the most efficient players in the game to about average just by switching teams?

No and like I said I obviously think Manu is a better/more efficent player than Johnson, I don't think the difference between the two is that huge. Also keep in mind Johnson at 26 (he is afterall only 26) is a lot better than Manu was at 26, and Johnson can still improve.

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05-25-2008 , 03:37 PM

#6828

Jack of Arcades

Jumbo Jack

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How much better has Joe Johnson gotten? The improvement would have had to have been between the PHO and ATL years, has he hasn't really improved since then despite the fact that team has gotten better. Even during the playoff series vs Boston his TS% was essentially the same.

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05-25-2008 , 03:41 PM

#6829

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades

I think he has gotten a good amount better than he was on the Suns even though his efficency went down because he is now taking a lot tougher shots on the Hawks than he was with the Suns (his efficency should have gone down a lot more than it did imo if he had stayed the same because of this), a lot of it having to due with him being the first option on a bad team (something he shouldn't be, he would be a lot more effective as a 2nd or 3rd option on a good team).

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05-25-2008 , 04:03 PM

#6830

KLJ

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this is where JJ should have gone, imo. maybe he could have gotten drafted 10 picks before, but size got drafted a lot early. i think he's among the top 5 BPA in terms of swingmen. his defense isn't good, but he can shoot the 3 and is pretty versatile on offense. decently efficient. some questions about whether he would be happy being the 2nd/3rd fiddle though.

re: biedrins
he has the potential to be Chandler. his skill set is vastly different from gasol and he has a long, long way to go before nearing camby. a potential chandler is a bit of a reach here imo, but i dont hate it.

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05-25-2008 , 04:04 PM

#6831

AC-Cobra

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Great pick teamed with Zo and Williams. He's good value here as well, about where he should of gone (he was on my shortlist). Thanks for getting the pick up Nick.

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05-25-2008 , 04:08 PM

#6832

NameOnTheCake

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JJ is a good pick

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05-25-2008 , 04:26 PM

#6833

Assani Fisher

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

What? No way, he is a late 2nd round talent. I think someone like Manu is a better player, but Joe Johnson is pretty close to him and he went mid-second and everyone loved the pick.

except Joe Johnson puts up his numbers on a bad team by being about average efficiency wise, while Manu puts up his numbers on a good team and being very eficient. Since he got to ATL, JJ's TS% has been 53.7, 55.8, and 53.5. Manu's the past 4 years has been 60.9, 59.3, 60.9, and 61.2.

Manu is better in nearly every advanced stat. Rebound %, assist %, steal %(way way ahead here), block %, PER, etc. Its not very close.

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05-25-2008 , 04:26 PM

#6834

BobboFitos

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zomg he made a pick! best memorial day evar!

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05-25-2008 , 04:28 PM

#6835

kidcolin

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its' not memorial day

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05-25-2008 , 04:30 PM

#6836

BobboFitos

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades

Joe Johnson is nowhere close to as good as Manu **** Ginobili.

Yeah, Manu is such a step above JJ it's not close. Actually, it's like saying Redick is "close" to as good as Joe Johnson.

25 PER vs 16 PER - no matter how flawed the stat, 9 pts is huge.

Regardless tho, there are no Manu Ginobilis left IN the draft. JJ here is solid value and I like him on your team. Here's hoping Victor picks soon!

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05-25-2008 , 04:32 PM

#6837

BobboFitos

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sergsz

I know stats don't always tell the whole story, but still.... Regarding D, he's been awful the past few years based on both DRTG and defensive win shares. Re efficiency, his TS% has actually been higher in Atl than in Pho. It went from awful when he was a younger player, to halfway decent but not that great the past few years. His last year in Phoenix was also the only season where he had positive WSAA. I mean, he is certainly a reasonable player to take at this point in the draft, but his advanced stats make him look a lot worse than his general reputation among casual fans.

I think in particular it was a bit of a joke he made the all star team this year. He wasnt the best player on his team.

Last edited by BobboFitos; 05-25-2008 at 04:40 PM.

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05-25-2008 , 04:36 PM

#6838

BobboFitos

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kidcolin

its' not memorial day

kc, the past week or so you've been riding me pretty hard. why?

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05-25-2008 , 04:36 PM

#6839

kidcolin

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bobbo been eatin' them ****** sandwiches again

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05-25-2008 , 04:37 PM

#6840

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BobboFitos

Yeah, Manu is such a step above JJ it's not close. Actually, it's like saying Redick is "close" to as good as Joe Johnson.

wat

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05-25-2008 , 04:38 PM

#6841

BobboFitos

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Again, the difference between Manu Ginobili and Joe Johnson is roughly the difference between Joe Johnson and JJ Redick.

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05-25-2008 , 04:38 PM

#6842

kidcolin

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^^^ lol nice timing.

i was just bustin' chops about the memorial day thing. The no mention names thing cuz you do it constantly and it's mega-easy not to do and everyone has asked you not to a thousand times and you got banned for it and you STILL do it.

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05-25-2008 , 04:39 PM

#6843

EPiPeN11

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deleted

Last edited by EPiPeN11; 05-25-2008 at 04:45 PM.

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05-25-2008 , 04:40 PM

#6844

BobboFitos

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kidcolin

I've completely stopped naming players though.

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05-25-2008 , 04:40 PM

#6845

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BobboFitos

Again, the difference between Manu Ginobili and Joe Johnson is roughly the difference between Joe Johnson and JJ Redick.

I have a really cozy home i'd like to sell u for 1 million dollars, it's really cozy man u'd love it.

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05-25-2008 , 04:40 PM

#6846

kidcolin

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BobboFitos

I've completely stopped naming players though.

??? Where's the BobbIsWrong gimmick when you need it

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05-25-2008 , 04:40 PM

#6847

BobboFitos

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Epipen, plz edit your post, bc i edited* mine, bc i ate some ****** sandwhiches

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05-25-2008 , 04:41 PM

#6848

BobboFitos

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yeah kc, i noticed the irony, again, you are right, i ate a ****** sandwhich, my mistake.

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05-25-2008 , 04:42 PM

#6849

kidcolin

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it was hilarious this time cuz it was like a whole team of guys mentioned.

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05-25-2008 , 04:42 PM

#6850

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BobboFitos

Epipen, plz edit your post, bc i edited* mine, bc i ate some ****** sandwhiches

Honestly no one is going to draft him anyway so I don't see the big deal.

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