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Old 05-22-2008, 07:58 PM   #6376
Victor
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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2.5 does not equal 1.5. If you're trying to make an argument and you're off by 40% then I'm going to call you out on that. LOL if you think that makes me a nit. 40% is not nittish.
well im just gonna say that his 2nd year wasnt extraordinary. was very good but not like one of the best ever. he had a 20.8 per. theres tons of ppl who do that every year.

so im gonna say he had a 1 year peak. there ya go.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:00 PM   #6377
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by lapoker17 View Post
this does nothing to disprove my assertion that a lot of you are overrating individual defenders in this draft. nor does it establish that by building a team of the best individual defenders (at the cost of offense) you give yourself a "better" shot at a title. i'm sure you can see that.
It doesn't disprove it because it would be impossible for me to completely disprove it. Honestly, can you think of one thing I could ever do to completely disprove it? Me not being able to disprove something completely does not mean its correct. With that said, what I posted proves that defense is much more valuable than offense. Moreover, most casual fans overrate offense as they rank it more important than defense when evaluating players.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:01 PM   #6378
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Perhaps you can tell me: How in the future should I get you to reply to posts of mine that you've ignored while carrying on other aspects of the debate?
dude i responded to that post in less than 15 minutes.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:01 PM   #6379
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
[/b]

hahah this is hilarious.
LOL. I understand why out of context its funny. But he was having a debate with me and he continued the debate with me while ignoring those posts. Obviously ordinarily I wouldn't care if someone doesn't respond to my posts. However cherry picking my posts regarding a debate and responding them but then ignoring other points I make is unfair.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:02 PM   #6380
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by James282 View Post
yeah this thread goes from having awesome hypothetical sports debate to being completely intolerable when new picks aren't being made. It makes me want to die.
qft, mmbt0ne, where you at?
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:03 PM   #6381
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

and really im proly just not gonna respond to your posts in the future. no good can come from it.

notice how u get in these long, drawn out, mostly semantic arguments over and over again.

notice bobbo doesnt. clark doesnt. tbach doesnt. anyone with a clue doesnt. but u do, over and over again. and goddamit u got me in one. and now it stops.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:03 PM   #6382
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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well im just gonna say that his 2nd year wasnt extraordinary. was very good but not like one of the best ever. he had a 20.8 per. theres tons of ppl who do that every year.

so im gonna say he had a 1 year peak. there ya go.
PER by itself is a poor metric. I never said it was "one of the best ever." I said that his peak was around top 20 in this draft.

His numbers from that year were 20.9 ppg on 60 TS%. Thats insanely good, especially when you add in 7.2 assists, 4.4 rebounds, and very good defense.

If you're really not counting this as a peak year then I don't even know what to say except you must be trying to troll me, as nobody could look at this year and not call it a peak year.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:05 PM   #6383
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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dude i responded to that post in less than 15 minutes.
You responded to 1/3 of it. Ok let me rephase:

In the future if I make many points in a post and you ignore all of them except one, how should I get you to respond to the other points without it coming across like I'm disrespected or putting you on my shtlist?
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:05 PM   #6384
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

and btw, this exchange tilted me so much i had to shut down my poker tables. so congrats assani, u cost me money too. u win. all hail.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:06 PM   #6385
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
and really im proly just not gonna respond to your posts in the future. no good can come from it.

notice how u get in these long, drawn out, mostly semantic arguments over and over again.

notice bobbo doesnt. clark doesnt. tbach doesnt. anyone with a clue doesnt. but u do, over and over again. and goddamit u got me in one. and now it stops.
If you want to stop arguing thats fine. I'm not forcing anyone to. I only went through all of this because you argued with a few of my points but ignored others, which I thought was intellectually unfair and dishonest on your part. No problem though if you wish to stop debating now....
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:07 PM   #6386
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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and btw, this exchange tilted me so much i had to shut down my poker tables. so congrats assani, u cost me money too. u win. all hail.
Again let me ask you: Why on earth are you taking this personal? I have no personal problems with you whatsoever and I enjoy this FRIENDLY EXCHANGE OF IDEAS AND THOUGHTS with you. Thats what I take it as.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:10 PM   #6387
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

this **** is tilting me and im not even in the ****ing argument. the plan is to get at least to zoid tonight imo, so we can get to nicholas before the weekend
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:10 PM   #6388
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

now see, just so u know, this time i am ignoring u. i see your questions, but ya, im not gonna respond. so dont bump, and dont be anxious for a response.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:15 PM   #6389
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

No problem man. Hope you have a great day(I'm 100% serious).
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:15 PM   #6390
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
You do realize has led his team in points scored for a season before right? Tyson Chandler isn't even close to a #1 option on a team. Has he ever even been a #3 option??
The last two years. Besides, we are talking about the difference between a 7' and a 6'9" player, although both are called F/C. They have different games, but Chandler is clearly a better finisher around the rim, which is something you need from your 5. I agree that Thorpe is better offensively, but he's not better at finishing a high percentage play around the rim, set up from penetration by a backcourt player.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:18 PM   #6391
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The last two years. Besides, we are talking about the difference between a 7' and a 6'9" player, although both are called F/C. They have different games, but Chandler is clearly a better finisher around the rim, which is something you need from your 5. I agree that Thorpe is better offensively, but he's not better at finishing a high percentage play around the rim, set up from penetration by a backcourt player.
Tyson Chandler was 8th on his own team in FGA two years ago. He was 5th this year.

You really think hes the #3 option?
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:19 PM   #6392
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
i mean, did u really think i would just ignore u? have i ever done that? have i ever backed down from an internet fight? cmon man, this is all i do. so, like in a multiple choice test, i like to tackle the easy ones first.

your post required a bit of thought and typing so i figured i hit it last.
interesting....
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:19 PM   #6393
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Chandler is a better finisher in the sense that if he gets an oop it's in the hole or if he catches it right underneath and there's not a ton of defensive pressure he'll go up and slam it, but he's nearly inept at creating for himself.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:21 PM   #6394
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

btw, i am trying to figure out basketball-ref, does someone have a link to how you guys are sorting by PER, ts%, etc? Trying to learn more about basketball and this thread has been a big help but I think I may need a little hand-holding.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:24 PM   #6395
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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btw, i am trying to figure out basketball-ref, does someone have a link to how you guys are sorting by PER, ts%, etc? Trying to learn more about basketball and this thread has been a big help but I think I may need a little hand-holding.
What do you mean "sorting by". I have just been looking up everyone's stats manually. I just learned about the Full Court tab at the top, which may be what you're asking about.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:24 PM   #6396
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

there's a "leaders" tab at the top. You can see career leaders, best seasons, yearly, etc. There's also "leagues", which lists each season by year, and within a given year there are leader boards near the bottom of the page, and you can click on an "expanded leaders" link somewhere near the top.

There's also the "full court" section where you can do a variety of searches, player comparisons, etc.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:27 PM   #6397
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Tyson Chandler was 8th on his own team in FGA two years ago. He was 5th this year.

You really think hes the #3 option?

What stat would you say most defines the ranking within the offense? I say offensive win share is the most highly corellated to our arguement.

Chandler's OWS is second to Chris Paul last year and 3rd to Paul and Peja this year - so yes.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:29 PM   #6398
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

thanks guys
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:35 PM   #6399
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
What stat would you say most defines the ranking within the offense? I say offensive win share is the most highly corellated to our arguement.

Chandler's OWS is second to Chris Paul last year and 3rd to Paul and Peja this year - so yes.
I would say field goal attempts are most telling of which offensive option you are.

The main reason why Tyson Chandler's offensive win shares are high is because of his offensive rebounding(4.4 and 4.1 per game the past two years). In fact I think "main reason" is an understatement; This is pretty much the ONLY reason he ranks highly here.

And offensive rebounds have nothing to do with being a main option on offense. In fact if you are a main option for that possession you are probably less likely to be freed up to crash the boards.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:36 PM   #6400
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Chandler is a better finisher in the sense that if he gets an oop it's in the hole or if he catches it right underneath and there's not a ton of defensive pressure he'll go up and slam it, but he's nearly inept at creating for himself.
That is exactly the sense I meant it in. Chandler picks up a pretty respectable OWS on a very good team, so its hard to say that he doesn't fill the role of finishing when Chris Paul sets the table.
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