Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-22-2008, 05:51 PM   #6301
nath
the second coming of the second coming
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rust and Marty, a hundred years
Posts: 67,703
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Thats a freakin' awesome team. I'm not trying at all to give you any hints(I don't even have any player in mind here), but for awesomeness' sake please continue drafting these type of players the next two rounds and end up with the most insane and crazy team of all time. No team in the league is going to want to play you.
I really want him to trade for Starbury somehow
nath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 05:52 PM   #6302
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiiiiigChips View Post
Good example of how we probably shouldn't be overly critical until at least a full starting 5 is drafted. It's hard to tell exactly where an owner is going with his team until you have a complete 5 together.
I somewhat agree but I think that early on you have to draft for value a lot moreso than team building, so criticism is fair.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 05:54 PM   #6303
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
I wasn't super high on the pick, but if Darko wanted him then it is a great trade.
Its a lot of luck, but yeah this is basically what trading boils down to imo...you got a guy you wouldn't have gotten if you didn't trade, so well done...
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 05:55 PM   #6304
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,790
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=5515

that was my response. i even quoted part of your post.
assani
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 05:57 PM   #6305
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
per wikipedia:
"In spite of his abilities, Artest has been the subject of much controversy. During his rookie season with the Chicago Bulls, he was subject to criticism for applying for a job at Circuit City, just to get an employee discount.[8] He once attended an Indiana Pacers practice in a bath robe.[9] He was suspended for two games in the early 2004-05 season by Pacers coach Rick Carlisle after he allegedly asked for a month off because he was tired from promoting an R&B album for the group Allure on his production label.[8] Artest had also been suspended for three games in 2003 for destroying a television camera in Madison Square Garden, New York City, and for four games for a confrontation with Miami Heat coach Pat Riley in 2003.[8] He has also been suspended several times for flagrant fouls.[8]

At the start of the 2004-05 season, Artest changed his uniform number. In past seasons with Indiana, he had worn the number 23 in tribute to NBA legend Michael Jordan. For the 2004-05 season he wore the number 91; a tribute to former multiple Defensive Player of the Year award winner Dennis Rodman, another controversial basketball player from the late 1980s and the 1990s. After being suspended for the remainder of the season due to his involvement in the Pacers-Pistons brawl, Artest reverted his number back to the original he wore for the majority of his basketball life, number 15, though he switched to number 93 after being traded to the Sacramento Kings.

In October 2005, Artest gained more attention when he, fully clothed, graced the cover of Penthouse magazine,[10] along with three bikini-clad models."

and

quotes:
" * On the All-Star game; "They better not put me in the All-Star Game. I won't shoot, but I'll dominate that easy game. I'll be playing hard defense. I'll be foulin'. I'll be flagrant fouling. Everyone will be like, 'What are you doing?'"[17]
* In regards to Bonzi Wells' free agent status and re-signing with the Sacramento Kings, Ron said, "[Bonzi] called me last week. I told him if he leaves, then I'm going to kill him. Unless he wants to die, he's got to stay (with the Kings)."[18]"

awesome defender though, and i was excited when i found out he was coming to sac. maybe just for the soap opera factor
Artest
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 05:58 PM   #6306
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,790
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=5515

that was my response. i even quoted part of your post.

assani fisher
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:03 PM   #6307
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
You don't see how a team of Deron and Marion are going to score in the half court? Eh? Deron/Marion/Battier are 3 of the most efficient guys in the league and you've got a pretty good defensive team going.

The team plays a little small and likes to run but there's no doubt they could score in a half court set.
2/3 of your team has pretty much no one-on-one game. Now I do realize that by drafting an elite passing PG that is obviously going to help the guys without one-on-one games the most. But still you usually need someone to bail the team out when the offense runs poorly during a possession, and so far you just have Deron who is below average in this respect compared to the #1 option on other teams in this league.

I'll admit I'm interested in seeing your next two picks though.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:07 PM   #6308
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
For peole who like the Artest pick and hate Battier: do you think bulk inefficient scoring is better than limited but efficient scoring? Or do you think that Artest D >> Battier D?
Artest D>> Battier D

Battier is a really smart defender who is constantly in the right place and will never hurt you. Artest is a great defender who is physicially dominating.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:08 PM   #6309
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,790
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=5515

that was my response. i even quoted part of your post.
rofl, i think he actually put me on ignore bc he thought i didnt respond to his post that i actually responded to.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:12 PM   #6310
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
re: Chandler. Even though I'm anti this pansy all defensive biz, I like the makeup of this team right now. Payton should be able to play the Paul role in that relationship more or less, but not quite as effective.
I like his picks a lot because I think he targetted the toughest positions to find early(especially trying to find both good defense and efficient and somewhat bulk offense at these positions).

With that said, I think his one mistake was reaching on Rasheed. I like a guy like Laimbeer better and he went later on...another example of today's players being overrated in this draft imo.

I also would've loved pairing GP with Sidney Moncrief(although to be fair, since I think Moncrief was the steal of the draft I would've loved any pairing with him) and then getting Chandler and going with a PF later on.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:14 PM   #6311
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
man, i think thorpe is a nice pick. i was having a hard time rating him but i always liked him as a kid and his stats are nice.
Thorpe bring good value there, but again I have to ask someone to tell me more about his defense, as I don't remember it well. Numbers wise he blocks very few shots for a big man.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:18 PM   #6312
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdarko View Post
Ugh. Battier is a top 10 offensive efficient players in the NBA. I am not drafting my go to scorer in the 3rd. I am building my team. Making it dynamic. I am not drafting ****ing Kiki Vandkdfakdweghesdkjewhe, someone who will stand in one spot all game which won't work when you have the best players of the last 30 years on the floor. I have a big guy that can get up and down the court, sit on the arc when Deron goes to the paint, someone who can pnr, a defender of 3 positions which makes drafting of later rounds versatile and it also gives me the ability to play match-ups--I will be able to play small and run when all is said and done or play big.

I like the idea of being able to get up and down the court and being able to play great defense, what a novel idea.
I understand that everyone gets a little defensive when people bash their picks, but....

I'm not arguing necessarily with the style you're playing. What I am arguing is that Battier or someone very similar will be available in the 4th round if you don't pick him, and that an efficient bulk go to guy probably won't, and you're going to be lacking that.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:20 PM   #6313
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Thorpe rules as a 4. Great post defense, gobbles up boards, gets to the charity stripe a lot. Played a gagillion minutes.
Please expand upon this. Horrible block numbers and not one All Defensive Team. I'm interested in hearing what you saw in him...
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:21 PM   #6314
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
With that said, I think his one mistake was reaching on Rasheed. I like a guy like Laimbeer better and he went later on...another example of today's players being overrated in this draft imo.
I had this discussion with another 2p2er who thought I was nuts when I said Sheed and Laimbeer compare very similarly as far as playing style is concerned, with Laimbeer being better in all facets except post offense.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:22 PM   #6315
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Come on, that's the whole point of this draft. It would be boring if we only got to troll Epip about McHale and HSP about Marbury, everyone is going to get criticized at some point.
+1
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:27 PM   #6316
TheQuietAnarchist
Formerly xorbie
 
TheQuietAnarchist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,826
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think the thing I dislike most about the Battier pick is that with Deron/Marion you had a really versatile combination that could play really well in the half court offense, can play a variety of offenses and can also play a really up tempo style where you try to force a lot of TO and run.

Battier is good defensively but I'm not really sure he would be great with a running team (hard to say since Houston is so slow but he doesn't seem like he's a great off the ball guy and he's def not a ball handler), and what he does on offense means you really force yourself to take a bulk scoring SG or post scorer (like there are any left) later. In a half court set, he really doesn't give you much besides the 3pt shot, and you have no real post presence so besides Deron I don't see who is going to free you up.

Not to say the team is terrible or can't be salvaged, but I think the pick was a reach and also not a great fit...
TheQuietAnarchist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:28 PM   #6317
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontRaisePlz View Post
would anyone have liked putting Artest on MJ's team, considering how little an inhouse distraction Rodman was during his Bulls years? you know, the whole "crazy guys aren't so crazy with fierce, respected leaders" angle.

I thought that was one place Ron could've gone.
+1
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:32 PM   #6318
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Please expand upon this. Horrible block numbers and not one All Defensive Team. I'm interested in hearing what you saw in him...
He did have some stiff competition for All D teams in those days, and he obv wasn't a great help defender. Often times he'd be the one guarding their opponents best interior, with Hakeem being the help guy. Like most great post defenders (Duncan, Laimbeer, Sheed, XXXX), he had quick feet but didn't leave them that often, and most importantly their hands were usually a foot away from the ball at all times.

I think that it's rare to find a big man who can be a great help and post defender, Duncan and Ewing are good examples, because what makes you great in one can hurt you in the other. If you leave your feet a lot, you are going to get caught more often. And when you do alter a shot, you are rarely in position to get the rebound.

That's kinda why I always felt, and this is just from my own perception, that Ewing in his prime was a better overall defender than Hakeem or Drobinson, and that Duncan is better than all of them.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:38 PM   #6319
Chris Daddy Cool
The ****ing best
 
Chris Daddy Cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: GAMBOL
Posts: 10,582
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Since he'll be in a completely different situation, theres about a .000001% chance that he also runs into the stands and fights someone in our league. However, theres obviously a much bigger chance with him than someone else that he misses games due to a suspension or "taking time off to focus on his music industry career."
waaaaay more likely than .000001%. the dude is absolutely insane. all it will take is one little thing to set him off. if its not a fight with someone in the stands it might be him drop kicking the other team's mascot and eating his heart or something.
Chris Daddy Cool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:39 PM   #6320
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I wanted Chambers.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:45 PM   #6321
cowboy2579
adept
 
cowboy2579's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 2+2 obv
Posts: 1,104
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Thorpe bring good value there, but again I have to ask someone to tell me more about his defense, as I don't remember it well. Numbers wise he blocks very few shots for a big man.
I don't see how Thorpe is such a great pick while Chandler is mediocre. Chandler is a better defender w/ similar offense + 3 inches IMO.
cowboy2579 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:47 PM   #6322
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapoker17 View Post
wtf of course its good defensively, but its an absolute trainwreck offensively. you have to score points to win games. the defensive obsession in this draft is bizarre.
06-07 Spurs: 5th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
05-06 Heat: 7th in offensive rating, 9th in defensive rating
04-05 Spurs: 8th in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
03-04 Pistons: 18th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
02-03 Spurs: 7th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
01-02 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
00-01 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 21st in defensive rating
99-00 Lakers: 4th in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
98-99 Spurs: 11ts in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
97-98 Bulls: 8th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
96-97 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating
95-96 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
94-95 Rockets: 6th in offensive rating, 12th in defensive rating
93-94 Rockets: 15th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
92-93 Bulls: 2nd in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
91-92 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating

90-91 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
89-90 Pistons: 11th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
88-89 Pistons: 7th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
87-88 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 9th in defensive rating
86-87 Lakers: 1st in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
85-86 Celtics: 3rd in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
84-85 Lakers: 1st in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
83-84 Celtics: 5th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
82-83 76ers: 5th in offensive rating, 5th in defensive rating
81-82 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 10th in defensive rating
80-81 Celtics: 5th in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating


I've bolded the years in which the champ was rated higher on offense than on defense. Only twice has a team won without being top 10 on D. Four times that has happened on offense.

Also....

07-08 Spurs: 15th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
07-08 Lakers: 3rd in offensive rating, 5th in defensive rating
07-08 Celtics: 9th in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
07-08 Pistons: 6th in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating


You'll note that four out of the top 5 defensive teams from this year are still alive. The #2 team is the Rockets, who also made the playoffs and won 55 games despite losing Yao for a large part of the year.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:47 PM   #6323
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Wow, I just came across a player that I totally forgot about and is awesome value at this point. Snap. Supa sleepa.

D
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:50 PM   #6324
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
I don't see how Thorpe is such a great pick while Chandler is mediocre. Chandler is a better defender w/ similar offense + 3 inches IMO.
They are differnt types of defenders, and offensively their games were much different. Thorpe put the ball on the floor and drove more than his high FG% would lead you to beleive. He was also quite a crafty finisher for a big man.

Chandler is good at all aspects of defense, wheras Thorpe was great at one, and the other... well he had Hakeem

I'm not sure you can compare the two because they had completely different roles.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:51 PM   #6325
fanmail
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fanmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Crown Town
Posts: 32,416
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
I don't see how Thorpe is such a great pick while Chandler is mediocre. Chandler is a better defender w/ similar offense + 3 inches IMO.
I don't know who was dogging the Chandler pick, I think it is solid.

Also, the 2 guys shouldn't really be compared as they are used for different reasons, and also play different positions.
fanmail is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive