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Old 05-22-2008, 05:10 PM   #6276
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
im pretty sure i responded to it. go ahead and bump it again if it was unsatisfactory and i will be sure to rifle it to the time of the to-do list.
I'm not sure if you're trolling here or not, as you definitely did not respond to it. If you don't feel like debating anymore then just let me know, but here was what happened....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
yup, thats why we're giving u sht. bc u way overestimate the chances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
You must not be reading my posts or something.....

Quote:
How big of a possibility is this? I really have no clue, nor does anyone else. Any guess is pure and complete idle speculation imo.
Quote:
I've always said "Maybe Penny will be healthy in this format because of better microfracture surgery techniques, him not being injury prone out of college, and his playing 3 full seasons in his first 6 years. Then again maybe he won't be. It is indeed a gamble, but I've provided some reasoning why it could work out."
Quote:
As I said, I have no clue if he'd stay healthy or not. Neither does anyone else. I outlined above a few reasons which support the viewpoint that he could stay healthy, but other than that I can't really debate it. Clearly he is a risk, but man the reward is high.
Quote:
I'll agree with you that there is A CHANCE that players like McHale/Penny will be helped by this format. However, I'm not going to say that either of them definitively wouldn't have had a similar career ark, as we simply don't know.
Never once in any of my posts do I estimate the chances that Penny stays healthy or recovers from microfracture surgery. All I every do is point out the reasons why he MAY stay healthy. I draw no conclusions from these reasons and I am very clear in saying that "I have no clue what the odds are." Seriously, where are you getting this from?


At this point, you were very active in the thread and posted many other times. But you never responded to that post. So I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Victor,

Does you ignoring the major point of my post mean you take back what you said?

I've noticed something that happens here. You disagree with a poster over something and you're very certain that you're right, and for it impacts your view of that poster even on other issues. I'm certainly not immune to it. For example, take a look at me and EPip. Before the McHale debate I remember agreeing a lot with him. A few times he even wrote "Yea, you just wrote basically what I wrote(I hadn't caught up in the thread when I posted)." However after our disagreement on McHale, it seems like we agree a lot less on other things.

Similarly, I'm almost expecting to disagree with HSP's next pick due to Marbury.

Anyway, the reason I bring this up is because I think you're doing this with me here....You saw me react harshly regarding the debate over Hardaway's peak. And now you automatically assumed that I was wrong about the injury prone issue. In reality, as you can see by my recap of my posts above, I've been very fair about the injury issue and have never given any of my thoughts on the exact chances that he is able to play any number of years(which makes it completely ridiculous that you'd say I'm overestimating his chances, as I'M NOT EVEN ESTIMATING THEM!!!). If you'd like me to give my honest estimations of his chances of various injury scenarios, then I'll go ahead and do it, but I havn't done that yet so you can't critisize me there.



Anyway, back to the issue of his peak....

"he had a 1.5 year peak. wtf."

In 3 consecutive years he was All NBA 1st Team, All NBA 1st Team, and All NBA 3rd Team. Yes the one year in the middle of those 3 was his best year. However, I don't see how you only count this as a 1.5 year peak. Please explain.


"why cant i find a bunch of dudes with similar very short awesome peaks and say, well, mebbe they woulda continued it bc of abc?"

You can't find them because they don't exist or have been drafted already. Obviously you can't list undrafted players here, but I've repeatedly challenged you to list 20 players out of the 74 drafted who have put up a season as good as his at 24 years of age or younger and you've never done it. And if you really want to include undrafted players in your list then list all of the drafted players and PM me the few undrafted players in which you think have put up a better year than his at such a young age.

At this point I thought you'd respond for sure, as you were still active in the thread and responding to other points. But you still didn't so I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Hate to bump a post that I just made 10 minutes ago, but I've seen you respond to two other posts made after mine, so I take it that you either missed this or are ignoring it....

You must've saw this because you made a new post and immediately bumped your own post(by immediately I mean you made it at 7:37PM and bumped it at 7:39PM):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
Hate to bump a post that I just made 10 minutes ago, but I've seen you respond to two other posts made after mine, so I take it that you either missed this or are ignoring it....

I thought that continually ignoring my post and then copying my exact words(when I wasn't ignoring any of your posts) was annoying, so I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Stop being immature. No I did not respond to one single thing that was posted after you posted that before I responded to you. When I read your post, THE VERY FIRST THING I DID WAS TO RESPOND TO IT. But because I said something to you, you have to say it back to me? Seriously are you 10 years old or something?

Dude, I enjoy debating with you. I value this discussion, as it increases my basketball knowledge and I'm enjoying it. I thank you for taking the time to debate with me. So why are you acting like an ******* here? Why do stuff like that or why claim that I'm overestimating the chances that Hardaway can play without injury in our league when(as I proved by quoting four of my posts) I never even estimated the chances but instead always said "I really have no clue"?

Stuff like this makes me want to just put you on ignore, which is unfortunate because I'm enjoying our discussion.
You responded:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
my post was pretty immature, but so was yours. i mean, did u really think i would just ignore u? have i ever done that? have i ever backed down from an internet fight? cmon man, this is all i do. so, like in a multiple choice test, i like to tackle the easy ones first.

your post required a bit of thought and typing so i figured i hit it last.

At this point I didn't see how my post was immature at all, as I was just trying to get you to respond when you had been seletively responding to some of my posts but seemingly ignoring these ones regarding Hardaway. I had to leave for the night, so I told you to respond to it when you got a chance and I'd get back to you the next day. I even went so far as to personally apologize to you if I had come across as immature:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Victor, here is what happened:


-I made a post

-You made a few posts after it without responding to it whatsoever

-I made another post in which the first sentence was "Does you ignoring the major point of my post mean you take back what you said?"

-You responded to 2 or 3 posts made after that second post of mine.


At that point, do you really blame me for thinking that you're ignoring my point? If you weren't ignoring it but were just "tackling the easy ones first" then thats fine, but I think you could see why I thought you were ignoring me. I certainly don't see how it was immature of me. If I came across as immature, then I apologize, but that was far from my intention.
I came back the next day and saw that not only had you not responded to me, but you had instead made two more sarcastic and insulting posts towards me which added nothing to the debate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
this is actually a detriment in this league. while a guy like penny has a chance of being more healthy (assani has ruled out he could actually fall apart faster), a guy who never got hurt doesnt have a chance to be healthier. he will get hurt a certain percent of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
or u can hire assanis doctors and he becomes amare.


So once again I ask you: Do you care to respond to my posts? If you just wish to be a sarcastic troll, then just let me know and I'll move on. I really don't care either way. However when you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
im pretty sure i responded to it. go ahead and bump it again if it was unsatisfactory and i will be sure to rifle it to the time of the to-do list.
I have to think that means that you're choosing the troll route, as theres no way you think you responded to it when you know for a fact you didn't(just search your user name and look at posts you made in between now and then for proof).
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:13 PM   #6277
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by battschr View Post
Man...a run of my targets just went...I'm at a loss w/ whom to draft next.
I'd be interested in moving up.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:15 PM   #6278
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
+1. Like I said to begin with, we've got a 30 year talent pool here. There are other Battier's out there.
I'm a huge Battier fan, but I agree with this. My feeling before the draft was that we were going to overrate today's role players a ton while underrating the older role players, and I think thats definitely what is happening here. I think Battier went at least a round too early. I do like the unselfish nature of Deron/Marion/Battier there though, but I definitely would've gone with a big man and then picked up Battier or someone similar the next round.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:17 PM   #6279
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Who would you put in the top 5?

Duncan, KG? Then. I'm pretty sure every guy you put in your top 5 is picked, if not just put XXXX.
KG and Duncan obviously. Dwight Howard probably too. Tyson Chandler probably belongs up there. I won't name other players. though, as they havn't been drafted.

Basically I don't think Brand is a bad defender at all. Hes definitely good. Hes just not "awesome", especially if you're pairing him with other poor defenders.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:17 PM   #6280
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Nah, mullin is prob better, I just don't think by as much as people are making it to be. I think Mullin should've gone higher than he did too. Also, I just thought the all star game and mvp votes were a weird stat to throw out there.
I do think you're getting too much criticism for Kiki...I don't think its a bad pick at all.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:22 PM   #6281
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

btw kidcolin i found this for you:

best of vlade divac
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:27 PM   #6282
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

the real best of Vlade is in the easter eggs in my recap. A historic performance.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:28 PM   #6283
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Why are you trying to start an argument where there isn't one? What is hard to understand about that? I love that you are attacking someone who is agreeing with you...... Am I wrong for trying to get people to actually put something behind their arguments, instead of just stating X>Y even if it is true? Also it was about the fact that they made it out that Mullin>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kiki, not that Mullin>Kiki.
I havn't seen one person in this thread argue that Mullin is not better than Kiki. So when you see people say that Mullin is better, if you want to start a debate or to see some facts posted THEN IT IS ON YOU TO PROVE YOUR SIDE, NOT ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AGREEING WITH THE CONCENSUS.

Yes you're right that people said Mullin was better than Kiki without providing proof. But then you said "Kiki>all SFs" without giving proof(and yes I know you've now retracted that statement). Your statement without proof was much worse because it needed proof, while the other one was generally accepted.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:30 PM   #6284
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
I just think its funny that you're up in arms about the fact that I was purposely abrasive in order to generate discussion about my pick. But we can hug and talk about Detlef if you want?
You start good debates by making posts with good facts and arguments, not by making hyperbole statements without offering any proof. If you had picked a few players who Kiki was drafted after and put forth long and solid arguments about why you thought Kiki was better than them, then it would've generated a good long debate probably instead of what happened.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:32 PM   #6285
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BJLTNYK View Post
Holy God Reggie, Rodman, Artest. That is a badass team, but also liable to have anyone/everyone on their team ejected on a given night.
Thats a freakin' awesome team. I'm not trying at all to give you any hints(I don't even have any player in mind here), but for awesomeness' sake please continue drafting these type of players the next two rounds and end up with the most insane and crazy team of all time. No team in the league is going to want to play you.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:34 PM   #6286
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EvanJC View Post
Dear sweet Jesus ****, I'm glad someone finally took Artest. I thought my head was going to asplode
Hes inefficient and takes a lot of shots(and he doesn't seem like the guy to give a **** and stop taking his share of shots even if there are better options available). Its tough to want that on your team, but he does bring a lot of positives too.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:35 PM   #6287
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

btw i don't think it was posted, but here's the trade that went down between me and cowboy:

cowboy gives
95 (3rd round), 146 (4th round), 186 (5th round)

for my

88 (3rd round), 153 (4th round), 208 (6th round)

so i'm on deck
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:36 PM   #6288
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I was curious how Ron Ron would be judged. Unquestionably awesome on defense but the fact that he's certifiable is always a problem. Noone seems to have brought up that a lot of his good years (and years where he was able to stay on the courts) were between 19 and 24, another bad point. However I was hoping he'd slip even further so Id be forced into picking him.

Agree with everyone on Battier, great guy to have on your team, massive reach tho.

Love the Thorpe pick. Chambers is good, Chandler's ok I guess, not great, not awful.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:38 PM   #6289
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
yeah he had a few good seasons in Indiana, until the 1 season where they were probably title favorites and he trainwrecked the whole thing.

Was talking about him with someone else and the brawl came up.. are we just going to ignore it?
Since he'll be in a completely different situation, theres about a .000001% chance that he also runs into the stands and fights someone in our league. However, theres obviously a much bigger chance with him than someone else that he misses games due to a suspension or "taking time off to focus on his music industry career."
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:38 PM   #6290
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by fanmail View Post
I once guarded Artest in an AAU game (thinly veiled brag), he was quicker than ****.
I'd be interested in hearing more about your basketball background, that league, and the experience with Artest.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:39 PM   #6291
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
Are we locking this and making a new one once it hits 10k posts?
Maybe I'm not understand something, but why?
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:39 PM   #6292
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Chandler > Camby, so I think he was for sure good value here and with Rasheed that is a sick front line (defensively at least) that can match up with the likes of Ewing/Nance but with the added bonus of also having GP on your team.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:40 PM   #6293
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Yes world wide asians >>>> blacks because of china and africa.

America it's not even close blacks >>>> asians
I agree with this, but I assumed the initial statement was talking worldwide since it made no such qualifiers, and I don't see any reason for USA to be more important in these matters just because we happen to live here.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:40 PM   #6294
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

assani i responded to the post u bumped. i will go back and find it. its not that easy considering ive made 100s of posts in this thread. but hey, i want u to be happy and fulfilled.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:41 PM   #6295
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

PM me if you are interested in moving down.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:43 PM   #6296
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Maybe I'm not understand something, but why?
Other threads that have reached the 10k mark have been locked because they supposed hurt the server somehow, I don't know exactly why, but that's why the omg omg threads start over every couple of weeks in BBV4L.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:44 PM   #6297
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
Artest is not insane value because his offensive inefficiency is such a huge negative. And this does not seem like a good fit. The D will be great, but offense will be a problem. And the general rule with headcases is that you can have one on your team if you surround him with good citizens and strong leaders. Artest + Rodman on the same team is a recipe for disaster.
God you should've drafted Sheed instead of Reggie. Obviously I think Reggie>Sheed, but man....

maybe trade down and pick up a few more picks and then have Sheed, Rodman, Artest front line....so sick.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:44 PM   #6298
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=5515

that was my response. i even quoted part of your post.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:45 PM   #6299
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by tbach24 View Post
btw i don't think it was posted, but here's the trade that went down between me and cowboy:

cowboy gives
95 (3rd round), 146 (4th round), 186 (5th round)

for my

88 (3rd round), 153 (4th round), 208 (6th round)

so i'm on deck
What kind of a sloppy operation do you think I'm running, the spreadsheet has been updated within minutes of the trade being made. You think I'd let a trade happen without being told of the details, come on!
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:49 PM   #6300
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I'd be interested in hearing more about your basketball background, that league, and the experience with Artest.
Not much of a story, really. I was 14 or 15 at the time. It was a national tournament, he played for NY Riverside. I was usually a PF in middle school/high school, but I had to guard him because I was our best defender. They laid the wood to our team bigtime, he def had a dunk or 2.
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