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Old 05-22-2008, 02:03 AM   #6176
BJLTNYK
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah like kc I'll be making some reaches too so I look forward to bashing. I'm sure you have a plan but for now I'll remain skeptical.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:04 AM   #6177
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The artest pick was very bad.
People have commented a little on his game but it does not matter at all. He's a complete lunatic. You cannot build a franchise around him and Rodman,that's just not possible. You're sure of only one thing; they're not going to both playing on your team two years from now
Yeah, within two years they're definitely stomping a cameraman to death.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:06 AM   #6178
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I planned on taking him in about 40 picks if he was available, so even though it may have been a reach, Battier wouldn't have been there when it got back to Tdarko. Trading down could have worked, but at this point nobody really has a clue where someone is going to go.... Christ there are 3 guys who I'm shocked have not gone yet, and I'm beginning to think I could get one in the next 20 picks.
Yeah, I think taking the guy you want is much more important than taking a guy in the "right spot." You could argue that there are better guys in Battier's mold, I suppose, or that he's not a good fit. But if you're arguing he took him 20-30 picks too early, I don't think it really matters much since he wasn't going to be there anyway.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:12 AM   #6179
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

both artest and battier are garbage picks. injury and legal concerns for psycho artest. i love the guy as a player because of his intensity, but he's not great on this type of thing. too unreliable, too in love with his offensive ability (or lack thereof). battier is a role player. that simple. putting him on the offense with deron and marion might work because deron gets you a lot of open 3's.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:22 AM   #6180
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Wow, I missed over 100 pages of posts so there's no way I'm going through the whole thing (can someone quickly outlined the last 2 days worth of conversation?), but I wanted to give my overall round 2 comments:

Now that the round is complete I felt able to give full and expanded grades so far (won't give my own team a grade again). I'm not going to quote you any statistics, just general comments. Grades are based on the whole team, not just the pick. A combination of where it is now and potential. There's a lot of talent at the top because as of round 2, I don't feel like there were that many messups. The beauty of this is that there are so many superstars that have passed through the NBA, it is easy to build a very talented team.

A+

Jordan and Camby- I think you could've done better here, but it's really hard to weigh. If Camby was always healthy this would be unstoppable, but he's a chronic injury guy. Still had to give you props on drafting Jordan.

Shaq and Eddie Jones- After a no-brainer in Shaq, Bobbo takes another no brainer (IMO) in EJ. Great pairing as EJ is a somewhere between a poor and homeless man's Kobe. That's not a slant against EJ either.

Bird and Divac- The passing on this team is going to be great. Divac
would've been a no brainer by the time he got to the early 3rd round, absolutely a great value here as well.

Ewing and Nance- This has been discussed enough, but this is very, very good.

KG and Laimbeer-KG is sick sick sick and putting him with Laimbeer is badass. Great match. No need for lots of offense with KG, and Laimbeer will certainly be able to fill his role. One question I have, to those that saw Laimbeer play more, is will he be able to compete athletically speaking with some of bigger centers in this? Could he have stood to Robinson, Hakeem, and Shaq?

A

Magic and Redd- Magic wasn't known for his defense, neither is Redd. I'm not sure how well this will mesh, because Redd is best when plays are called for him, whereas Magic was a playmaker, and forcing him into an offense revolving around Redd is an inefficient use.

Hakeem and Rice- I like it. It's not going to be hard to find someone to facilitate this offense, and with a great inside presence like Hakeem, Rice's horrible defense won't be that awful.

D12 and Tim Hardaway- Awesome match. Hardaway is such a good PG and handles the ball a lot meaning you'll keep it out of Dwight Howard's turnover prone hands and just let him clean up the offensive boards and a dunk here and there until he develops a better offensive game.

Payton and Rasheed- Really like this team. I've discussed it before, but with two guys that can play team ball and go 1v1, you really start out well.

Nash and Manu- Manu demands the ball a lot to do his own work, probably to his own detriment (although the team's benefit). I can't imagine what his offensive numbers would look like playing with Nash. Hollinger would probably say he's better than Jordan.

Marion and Deron- IMO he made the best decision in selecting the BPA at that point to go along with a very versatile talent like Marion. I'm beginning to really like the Marion pick too, until he feels unloved.

Pierce and Pau- Seeing how these two have meshed with bigger stars has been great. How awesome would it be to see Tommy Heinsohn trying to mix and match "Pau" and "Paul" 41 games a year.

A-

Malone and Alvin Robertson- Like it. It's funny that I associate Malone so much with Stockton that I was shocked when you didn't pick an offensive partner, but I feel this works well despite the problems.

LeBron and Horace Grant- I'm not sure how good Grant is here. This was probably made because of how well Grant did with Jordan, but I think people overrate the similarities between Jordan and LBJ's games. Jordan was a MUCH better jump shooter, whereas it's LBJ's ability to get to the basket that makes him so special. A big man is necessary for Bron, but I don't think this is the right one.

DRob and Porter-Wow...um defense. Yawn to watch, but will be good.

CP3 and Terry Cummings- Like this one a lot. Can't really say much more about it without giving information away though.

Kidd and Richmond- One of the great things about Kidd is that you don't need to be able to put the ball on the floor AT ALL since Kidd will do all the work for you, and a great player who didn't need to put the ball on the floor to be effective (Richmond) will have his skills be highlighted with him.

McHale and Chauncey- Moving along....

'Zo and Buck Williams- You can never go wrong when you defend the paint IMO.

Reggie and Rodman- If I told you that you were pitting the best shooter ever with an insane rebounding, defensive, hustle guy is awesome, is that something you might be interested in? Add in the fact that it's Reggie Miller and Dennis Rodman, two very tough basketball players (one a little psycho, the other "clutch"), and there's a lot to like. Will be interesting to watch where it goes.

Pippen and Daughterty- Welcome to the 6 year zone!!

Brand and Ray- Before this season, if you were to ask me for two "solid" players, these are the two I would've given you. Now I know just how streaky Ray can be.

B+

Kobe and Big Al- I was a little skeptical at first, but then I thought of how easily Kobe and Pau have played together. The one thing is that Al struggles off the ball somewhat.

Stockton and Mullin- I really don't buy the hype on this one. Yeah it's good, but people are crowning this wayyy too early IMO. Certain needs NEED to be filled before I give this too much credit. IMO Mullin is too one-dimensional to be a really good fit with Stockton, but we'll see.

Dirk and Booze- This got too much hate. Dirk was a capable 3 when he was younger and these two give you a very legit inside/outside game. The only problem is that both of these guys need to be 1st options.

Amare and Mark Price- The Nash/Price comparisons are solid, but I don't think it will be quite that simple. Price wasn't as good as Nash obv. Still, I think it's a great match.

Iverson and Big Ben- As discussed, '00-'01 76ers.

Deke and Gilbert- See "Iverson and Big Ben." It'll be really funny if these teams match up."

Vince and Moncreif- Another member of the 5 year club!

B

Webber and Dumars- I'm going to reserve judgement on this one. It could be a solid team. I always felt Webber was a little overrated and underrated at the same time. Great team player, but not necessarily an individual force. Ditto for Dumars.

Worthy and Bosh- It's interesting, but it works. Bosh steps outside and Worthy steps in.

Clyde and Peja- This isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be, but it's quite short of spectacular.

KJ and 'Nique- Wow will this team be able to get to the basket. This is underrated IMO. IIRC 'Nique didn't really need the ball and was a good cutter, and pairing a good cutter and a good slasher together is deadly. One thing that kills is that neither really shot the ball all that well.

T-Mac and Parker- I hesitate to say this pick is good and that makes me uncomfortable with it. Neither are great to facilitate the offense which is a problem when you talk about two positions that are prime for that role.

Duncan and Penny- I'm very lenient on the whole injury clause, but even I'm not a fan of Penny here. If you put healthy Penny with Timmay, that would be great. Not too dissimilar to how Duncan and Manu are, except Duncan would still be young. But the injury is a big IF and considering how great Duncan is, and his ability to get it done with two different types of play, I think playing it safe would've been best.

B-/C+

Chuck and Stephon- lol. I like Starbury, but this is too soon. There's a reason Stephon has been traded a couple times.

Isiah and JOneal- Taking a long shot after a less than great first round pick won't really help you. I like JOneal and if healthy he would've gone awhile back, but health is a huge factor.

Yao and 'Melo- A chance to put Yao with the great dominant 3 point scorer he's always needed...and 'Melo happened.

D

Wade and Bynum- I'll repeat, if we're still talking about this 9 months later, some of us might want to edit posts. Or not. Injury concerns obv.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:24 AM   #6181
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

would anyone have liked putting Artest on MJ's team, considering how little an inhouse distraction Rodman was during his Bulls years? you know, the whole "crazy guys aren't so crazy with fierce, respected leaders" angle.

I thought that was one place Ron could've gone.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:28 AM   #6182
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

nice rankings but too nice. Someone needs an F. Too many A-'s, a few of which really don't deserve it.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:29 AM   #6183
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm willing to trade swap thirds, fourths, and fifths if anyone is interested. Basically you'd pick 20 picks later this round, and 20 picks later in the next two. Please PM and Email if interested, this offer stands until my guy gets taken.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:30 AM   #6184
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Basically you'd pick 20 picks later this round, and 20 picks later in the next two.
sweet deal dude.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:32 AM   #6185
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yes dontraisepls - the team with mj is the one place where artest would work perfectly for the reasons you describe. im a huge artest guy but he is certifiable. not in a funny goofy way either - he is actually insane. mj is the one guy in this draft who could do something about it.

also - otis thorpe was super solid and i liked him a lot, but pairing him with ben wallace is really bad.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:37 AM   #6186
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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sweet deal dude.
Perhaps I should change that. I don't want to be ridiculed for moving up to take my sorry pick..
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:37 AM   #6187
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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yes dontraisepls - the team with mj is the one place where artest would work perfectly for the reasons you describe. im a huge artest guy but he is certifiable. not in a funny goofy way either - he is actually insane. mj is the one guy in this draft who could do something about it.

also - otis thorpe was super solid and i liked him a lot, but pairing him with ben wallace is really bad.
i dunno, i actually like the pairing defensively, ala hakeem. the problem is offensively, obv, since alot of what gave thorpe those looks were the fact hakeem was a god in the post. ben wallace offensively is like the anti hakeem.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:40 AM   #6188
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Nice writeup Tbach, I agree with pretty much all of it.

Quote:
One question I have, to those that saw Laimbeer play more, is will he be able to compete athletically speaking with some of bigger centers in this? Could he have stood to Robinson, Hakeem, and Shaq?
I'd say he was better than most against Robinson, Hakeem, and Ewing but they'd still get their scores and dunks.. Never saw him play with Shaq, but I suspect Laimbeer would foul out or be on the bench most of the time... Nobody could check Shaq with any efficiency imo.

[edit] Actually there is one player who I saw frustrate the hell out of Shaq on two or three seperate occaisions, and it's a person that you'd never beleive (undrafted).
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:42 AM   #6189
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i dunno, i actually like the pairing defensively, ala hakeem. the problem is offensively, obv, since alot of what gave thorpe those looks were the fact hakeem was a god in the post. ben wallace offensively is like the anti hakeem.
wtf of course its good defensively, but its an absolute trainwreck offensively. you have to score points to win games. the defensive obsession in this draft is bizarre.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:54 AM   #6190
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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sweet deal dude.
Obv that went way over my head the first time... I suck.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:59 AM   #6191
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A+

Jordan and Camby- I think you could've done better here, but it's really hard to weigh. If Camby was always healthy this would be unstoppable, but he's a chronic injury guy. Still had to give you props on drafting Jordan.





LeBron and Horace Grant- I'm not sure how good Grant is here. This was probably made because of how well Grant did with Jordan, but I think people overrate the similarities between Jordan and LBJ's games. Jordan was a MUCH better jump shooter, whereas it's LBJ's ability to get to the basket that makes him so special. A big man is necessary for Bron, but I don't think this is the right one.
Can you PM who you feel was a better pick here than Grant and Camby. I considered both (and briefly a couple of others, who were clearly worse in my opinion) before settling on Grant.
Also I cannot let you say that Jordan's and LBJ games are different because its LBJ's ability to get to the basket that makes him so special. Think about it.
( they are different but because of other reasons.)
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:03 AM   #6192
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A

Magic and Redd- Magic wasn't known for his defense, neither is Redd. I'm not sure how well this will mesh, because Redd is best when plays are called for him, whereas Magic was a playmaker, and forcing him into an offense revolving around Redd is an inefficient use.
.

I doubt the offense will revolve around Redd.
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:55 AM   #6193
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

nice last few picks guys - Im fukd for picks now...I was really hoping Tyson would be available for my 3rd round pick and I could reunite him with Chris Paul - but I guess I have to look elsewhere for a Tysonesque center...since they feed off each other so nicely.

If anyone wants to trade down PM me.
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:03 AM   #6194
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Marion is a PF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne Wade
Shawn can play the two, the three, the four - the five!"
^^
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:11 AM   #6195
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Also, found this while looking at the youtubes:
PLAYER X sees his twin in the crowd
There was an even better Pau Gasol lookalike at staples today. Wearing a full uniform with Gasol jersey. I even lol'd irl omg.


Artest pick is awesome, because crazy is awesome. That team is now my favorite.
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:13 AM   #6196
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 3, Pick #91:
SG Michael Finley


For the five years focused on in this draft, Finley was one hell of a player. He averaged 20+ points in all five seasons, played in every game each year but one, and still managed to average more than 5 rpg and almost 5 apg, while heading to the All-Star game twice during that span (and many feel he was snubbed on at least two other occasions). His PER during this stretch went 19, 19, 19, 18, 18. He was a member of the NBA All-Rookie First team, has been an excellent FT shooter his entire career, and is a lifetime 37% 3-point shooter (96th all-time) without being one whose game was limited to threes during this stretch. Especially during this timeframe, he was the best or second-best player on a perennial playoff squad in the Mavericks, doing a little bit of everything as well as being the emotional leader of the squad even once Dirk became its best player.

He's an AWESOME off-ball option for this offense. He stretches the floor with his 3-point ability, can run the break effectively, passes well, rebounds very well for a 2-guard, and has the height and versatility to defend three, maybe even four different positions on the court (it will take some remembering to recognize that Finley was the lone versatile, adequate defender on a team full of terrible ones).

I give you: Michael Finley.

Team So Far:
C Yao Ming
SF Carmelo Anthony
SG Michael Finley


NoPairParker, you are on the clock.
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:18 AM   #6197
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol seriously tbach you're like the Harvard of NBA Build a Franchise
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:19 AM   #6198
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

great great pick. Your team is looking pretty sick right now Sammy
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:21 AM   #6199
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

solid fit, but Finley is one of those guys I wouldn't pick even if he was BPA.
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:28 AM   #6200
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

has sammy made pick yet I'm on the iPhone at commrce and can make my pick if he has
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