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Old 05-21-2008, 09:27 PM   #5951
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.
Kiki:

All-Star Games
1983 NBA
1984 NBA

MVP Voting
Season Lg Share (Rank)
1982-83 NBA 0.001 (22)

Honors



Mullin:

All-Star Games
1989 NBA
1990 NBA
1991 NBA
1992 NBA
1993 NBA

MVP Voting
Season Lg Share (Rank)
1988-89 NBA 0.004 (13)
1991-92 NBA 0.084 (6)

Honors
1988-89 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1990-91 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1991-92 NBA All-NBA (1st)
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:27 PM   #5952
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
I don't know how you can make this claim though. Look at the Warriors this year - were all actually pretty money from the 3pt line. And Baron still took something like 7 a game at a really inefficient clip. So, it's possible and likely if you surround him with a bunch of athletic guys similar to now, his chucking will continue.
Yeah I agree that Baron still chucks like it like crazy. But with Worthy and Bosh around him, Baron could get them some easy shots. Basically you've got two very efficient scorers around, so adding a playmaker who's not an efficient shooter isn't so bad.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:29 PM   #5953
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Playmakers of any considerable career length are really drying up. I don't think it was a bad pick. Injuries are the only concern I have with him not chucking in this league.

Shooters, bigmen who can either defend or score are also a much longer list.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:30 PM   #5954
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

This thread is bad for my sanity. There are a couple of guys that I really just want to scream at people arggggg
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:31 PM   #5955
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Serg is drafting an all-international team, which is awesome.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:31 PM   #5956
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
I'm sorta meh on Baron, just from a philosophical standpoint. Bad shooters who shoot a lot tilt me. Everything else about his game I love. Injuries a huge concern. When healthy he's probably the most physical force at PG in the league. He's built like a tank.

I sorta like the way this team is shaping out. Athletic as all ****.

He's also one of Paul Pierce's best friends.. so props for that.
Although I hated the Worthy pick, I agree that this is a very fun team here.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:36 PM   #5957
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by DontRaisePlz View Post
really wish basketball reference had the "similar players" feature of baseball reference.
They used to do this for every player at each season of his career. Wonder why they took it out.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:37 PM   #5958
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Kiki:

All-Star Games
1983 NBA
1984 NBA

MVP Voting
Season Lg Share (Rank)
1982-83 NBA 0.001 (22)

Honors



Mullin:

All-Star Games
1989 NBA
1990 NBA
1991 NBA
1992 NBA
1993 NBA

MVP Voting
Season Lg Share (Rank)
1988-89 NBA 0.004 (13)
1991-92 NBA 0.084 (6)

Honors
1988-89 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1990-91 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1991-92 NBA All-NBA (1st)
Please tell me you didnt really just use all star games and mvp voting to make a point.

Off the top of my head I can think of one completely awesome player who never made an all star game in his career, I'm sure there are probably more who made none or few.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:37 PM   #5959
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
pretty much. I think some passes were very "needs" oriented (me for example, plenty others), but people who went with scoring wings over him I was sorta wtf about. Penny especially.
Penny is playing PG on my team fwiw.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:37 PM   #5960
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Although I hated the Worthy pick, I agree that this is a very fun team here.
IMO BigCat had one of the worst 1st round picks, then made two solid decisions and took guys that would seem to work very well with James.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:41 PM   #5961
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
i've already said this once, but i need to show MEBenhoe some love here: He's absolutely rigt.
reasons to the contrary:
durability: aguirre >> kiki
defense: aguirre was bad, kiki was attrocious
non scoring offense: aguirre was average, kiki below average (aguirre averaged more REB/AST/STL with less TO)

wild card: aguirre struggled offensively (drops in TS%, EFG, Usg%, PPG) after being shipped to the pistons for 4 years (2nd to last in pace for 2 years, last in pace for 2 years)

more regarding pace:
Kiki's teams during his first 8 years (prime): 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st (all with DEN), 7th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd (all with POR)
Aguirre's teams during his first 7.5 years (prime): 21st, 14th, 18th, 23rd, 12th, 14th, 20th, 24th (all with DAL)

my conclusion:
Kiki was likely a better scorer than Aguirre; Aguirre was a marginally worse scorer, but better in every other regard. Enough to tip the scales his way, IMO.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:42 PM   #5962
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
MEb,

Assani,

It's MAJOR gayballs to carpet bomb this thread when all you do is have pointless arguments with Epip and egg him on. It's borderline trolling just knock it off and respond the real meat.
Most modern computer mice have added a scroll controller in the middle of the mouse. One great feature about this is that it enables one to easily scroll down past posts that they don't wish to read on internet message boards.

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 05-21-2008 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:43 PM   #5963
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
dude, take a jopke.
You've made the same joke 5 times now.

Are you going to respond to my post that I bumped twice yesterday?
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:43 PM   #5964
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

just as a FYI, im pretty sure tbach istrading is pick, but as soon as van exel makes a pick, tbac will announce his pick or a trade.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:44 PM   #5965
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

carpal tunnel ftw

OMG SARCASM KNOCK IT OFF ASSANI

Quote:
Penny is playing PG on my team fwiw.
well for 2 seasons anyway.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:44 PM   #5966
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
just got home from ballin', and to grunch a little bit:

Baron Davis
Cons are pretty big here, namely he's a chucker (career 5.4 3p per game at a lowly 32.5% clip; 15.2 fga at a 41.4% clip) with no signs of slowing that down. (or improving on his shot, i think it's fair to say he is not getting better now that he is 28/29!)
Another huge worry is he's mega injury prone. His only healthy years were pre 24 - remember, he starts at 24. Weird that this year being a contract year (or, player option) was the first in 5 (!!!) years he's played all 82. (or even close to it - the next best season total was 67!)
Further, for a PG that likes to shoot 3s, he shoots FTs at a deplorable rate. (69.2% career, wtf?) Baron draws alot of fouls but this is an area he's really weak, and frankly, will never get better.
Also, his career PER (18.5, juicy) hasn't been tainted by his inevitable decline, so this is "as good as it will get". Also, of all the pics you put in, you DIDNT show the slam in the GSW/Utah series of last year - WTF??

All that said, his defense doesn't hurt you, his rebounding numbers are nice, and he can score AND pass, and he has guarded 2 guards when needed, so he is versatile.

Mark Aguirre
JOA, I dont like the pick. Not sure why you wanted to trade up for him so badly (I'll look at your writeup afterward) but he's another Kiki Vandeweghe. His defense is insanely bad. No double digit defensive shares; DRtg career mark of 110 (LOL) - and (especially early in his career) he's a ballhog on offense. (peaking in his 24yr season, funny enough, with a usage rate of 33.4% - lol) he's like a poor man's Tracy McGrady. Also, for someone who loves 3pt shots, Aguirre is a career 31.2% outside shooter, so all those open looks Drob will create will be somewhat for naught.

Detlef Schrempf
Fantastic pick. I knew he was being taken here, so can't say much else, but for sure the BPA.
I agree with almost all of this.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:45 PM   #5967
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Serg is drafting an all-international team, which is awesome.
where is arenas from? africa?
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:46 PM   #5968
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Did you really call Ray Allen an average defender? oh, right, you're from Wisconsin, so must be a Buck homer who fell in love with him when he was on the Bucks. Sorry, but Ray Allen is a below average defender.
1. I've watched a ton of Ray Allen this year, on the best defensive team, and he was always the weak spot constantly bailed out by everyone else on the team (bc they were so good)
2. I watched a ton of Ray Allen in the past (I love UConn guys) and he never guarded the best player, EVER.
3. His defensive rating backs this up; career 109, and as a 24 yr old, had a 110, 106, 109, 108, 110, 112, 116, 112 mark. Uhh - That's terrible. Only one of those years would he be considered ~average (the 106).

Again, don't want to go too far into this, but Ray is a slightly below average defender, and to call him average is to call the "40% mark" 50%.

Also, is Elton Brand really an "awesome defender"? I realizes hes above average, but when I think "awesome" I think top 2 or 3 in the league at his position, and I wouldn't even call Brand a top 5 big man defender in today's NBA.

That team is going to struggle on D for sure.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:47 PM   #5969
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
You've made the same joke 5 times now.

Are you going to respond to my post that I bumped twice yesterday?
im pretty sure i responded to it. go ahead and bump it again if it was unsatisfactory and i will be sure to rifle it to the time of the to-do list.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:47 PM   #5970
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

dont want to get into too much more discussion on kiki vs aguirre, (i looked at both intensely prior to my selection) but kiki doesnt just have a scoring edge on agguire - he is truly elite. as in, he's a better scorer than half (probably more) of the first round picks. aguirre is also a very good scorer, but you cant run your offense through him like you can with kiki. so although kiki offers you nothing else, what he does offer you is very important (duh, scoring) and he does it so well it's hard to match it. agguire does something very well (but not elite) and everything else at a below average clip. both are very similar, and so neither is probably ">>" or whatever. weird thing is i think JoA's team would've benefitted more from Kiki, and MEB's team more from Aguirre.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:48 PM   #5971
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
heh, that was somewhat hyperbole to generate discussion. But a lot of it is gonna depend on what players I can fill out the team with. With the right support Kiki's ability to score like crazy could end up being awesome. I really think people are still underrating to this point the ability to score like crazy and do it efficiently.
We're going to have to see who is available in the 4th and 5th rounds, but you could be right for sure.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:48 PM   #5972
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
where is arenas from? africa?
america. he's allowed one.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:48 PM   #5973
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Also, is Elton Brand really an "awesome defender"? I realizes hes above average, but when I think "awesome" I think top 2 or 3 in the league at his position, and I wouldn't even call Brand a top 5 big man defender in today's NBA.

That team is going to struggle on D for sure.
i agree w. assani.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:50 PM   #5974
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Please tell me you didnt really just use all star games and mvp voting to make a point.

Off the top of my head I can think of one completely awesome player who never made an all star game in his career, I'm sure there are probably more who made none or few.
Do you really think Kiki>Mullin or are you just looking to debate?

The allstars, MVP votes, and All NBA Teams are telling imo.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:51 PM   #5975
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
america. he's allowed one.
oh, a ringer. fair enough.

its funny because a lot of the asian/filipino/etc only leagues here in the LA area generally allow a ringer(black/white) or two
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