Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2008, 08:50 PM   #5926
Steroid Boy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Steroid Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Backpacking Bananas
Posts: 42,156
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

jesus ****ing christ enough of kevin ****ing mchale




asklfdj;joiruweqpoiurpoiur
Steroid Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:52 PM   #5927
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLawMonies View Post
Also I think a break in the draft for more discussion might be needed - so many picks we've barely discussed the pairings.
It'll probably happen on the weekend....and then 2 or 3 people will go crazy and complain how slow we're moving.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:54 PM   #5928
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaSaltCracka View Post
So why are all the players modern era?
Because:

1. Most of us didn't see players from earlier play

2. I wanted to avoid the "would stars of yesteryear be anything more than role players in today's more athletic league" argument.

3. Because I didn't want each team to be totally stacked.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:57 PM   #5929
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popinjay View Post
This was one of the players I was going to mention in the never made best players before they got injured thread. Dude was absolutely SICK before he got injured. He had Amare-like explosiveness (before he got hurt too) and a good jump shot... dude was going to be a superstar. Alas, his knee f'd up
McDyess went a tad bit early imo, but I don't mind the pick overall.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:00 PM   #5930
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
or u can hire assanis doctors and he becomes amare.
Reading through this thread now, and this is the second sarcastic post you've made even though I've asked you nicely to cool it. Please stop.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:02 PM   #5931
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,790
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

dude, take a jopke.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:03 PM   #5932
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
agreed. He's def solid though and won't hurt his team.
agreed completely(regarding Andre Miller).
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:03 PM   #5933
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

just got home from ballin', and to grunch a little bit:

Baron Davis
Cons are pretty big here, namely he's a chucker (career 5.4 3p per game at a lowly 32.5% clip; 15.2 fga at a 41.4% clip) with no signs of slowing that down. (or improving on his shot, i think it's fair to say he is not getting better now that he is 28/29!)
Another huge worry is he's mega injury prone. His only healthy years were pre 24 - remember, he starts at 24. Weird that this year being a contract year (or, player option) was the first in 5 (!!!) years he's played all 82. (or even close to it - the next best season total was 67!)
Further, for a PG that likes to shoot 3s, he shoots FTs at a deplorable rate. (69.2% career, wtf?) Baron draws alot of fouls but this is an area he's really weak, and frankly, will never get better.
Also, his career PER (18.5, juicy) hasn't been tainted by his inevitable decline, so this is "as good as it will get". Also, of all the pics you put in, you DIDNT show the slam in the GSW/Utah series of last year - WTF??

All that said, his defense doesn't hurt you, his rebounding numbers are nice, and he can score AND pass, and he has guarded 2 guards when needed, so he is versatile.

Mark Aguirre
JOA, I dont like the pick. Not sure why you wanted to trade up for him so badly (I'll look at your writeup afterward) but he's another Kiki Vandeweghe. His defense is insanely bad. No double digit defensive shares; DRtg career mark of 110 (LOL) - and (especially early in his career) he's a ballhog on offense. (peaking in his 24yr season, funny enough, with a usage rate of 33.4% - lol) he's like a poor man's Tracy McGrady. Also, for someone who loves 3pt shots, Aguirre is a career 31.2% outside shooter, so all those open looks Drob will create will be somewhat for naught.

Detlef Schrempf
Fantastic pick. I knew he was being taken here, so can't say much else, but for sure the BPA.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:03 PM   #5934
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLawMonies View Post
Laimbeer - Best post defender of the 80s.
Really?
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:08 PM   #5935
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by negtv capability View Post
7 favorite selections after 2 rounds in order
#1 Chris Mullin (67)
#2 Sid Moncrief (60)
#3 Reggie Miller (34)
#4 Kobe Bryant (10)
#5 Marcus Camby (80)
#6 Carlos Boozer (65)
#7 Dennis Rodman (47)

7 least favorite selections after 2 rounds in order
#1 Stephon Marbury (68)
#2 David Robinson (8)
#3 Peja Stojakovic (62)
#4 Vlade Divac (76)
#5 Deron Williams (49)
#6 Larry Nance (53)
#7 Tracy McGrady (28)

7 favorite pairs in order
#1 Jordan/ Camby
#2 Garnett/ Laimbeer
#3 Miller/ Rodman
#4 Iverson/ Wallace
#5 Duncan/ Hardaway
#6 Stockton/ Mullin
#7 Nowitzki/ Boozer

7 least favorite pairs in order
#1 Mutumbo/ Arenas
#2 Mourning/ Williams
#3 Barkley/ Marbury
#4 Kidd/ Richmond
#5 Marion/ Williams
#6 McGrady/ Parker
#7 Worthy/ Bosh
Please explain the Kobe, D Robinson, and Deron Williams listings.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:08 PM   #5936
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
We have 1 awesome defender, 1 average defender, and 1 terrible defender imo. But there are still 2 more starting spots to fill out and a bench. What I do have is a ridiculously efficient/prolific offensive team so far.
Did you really call Ray Allen an average defender? oh, right, you're from Wisconsin, so must be a Buck homer who fell in love with him when he was on the Bucks. Sorry, but Ray Allen is a below average defender.
1. I've watched a ton of Ray Allen this year, on the best defensive team, and he was always the weak spot constantly bailed out by everyone else on the team (bc they were so good)
2. I watched a ton of Ray Allen in the past (I love UConn guys) and he never guarded the best player, EVER.
3. His defensive rating backs this up; career 109, and as a 24 yr old, had a 110, 106, 109, 108, 110, 112, 116, 112 mark. Uhh - That's terrible. Only one of those years would he be considered ~average (the 106).

Again, don't want to go too far into this, but Ray is a slightly below average defender, and to call him average is to call the "40% mark" 50%.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:10 PM   #5937
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Waaatt?

All this love for Aguirre, and all this hate for Kiki? There really isn't much difference between the two imo. Neither could defend for squat, they both were ball stoppers. Kiki's 3 range and relative offensive efficiency makes up for Aguirres perceived defensive ability.

I don't see much of a difference.
YEAH, +1 here. Actually, to further cement it, Kiki was everything Aguirre was, only better. lol.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:12 PM   #5938
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Baron is interesting. On paper he's obviously a chucker, but paired with the efficiency and James Worthy, that seems like a great fit. Defensively Baron is quite good, athletic, and finishes with the best of them.
I don't know how you can make this claim though. Look at the Warriors this year - were all actually pretty money from the 3pt line. And Baron still took something like 7 a game at a really inefficient clip. So, it's possible and likely if you surround him with a bunch of athletic guys similar to now, his chucking will continue.

Edit: Had to remove names.
Double Edit: The initial name dropping is an obvious case of just being used to prove a point, clearly no harm by means of that is intended, and I caught myself doing it. Even still, this rule is stupid, but I am adhering to it.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:14 PM   #5939
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Alex. View Post
Yeah, everyone outside of maybe the top 3 is going to need more than one elite scorer. I almost think people are bandwagoning too far on Assani's first post in the other thread.
which post and which other thread are you referring to?
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:16 PM   #5940
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
I was thinking about an allwhite team and could only think of one shooting guard that is draftable. And he's not really a pure 2.
for the record, there are surprisingly a few good 2 guards that are eligible.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:18 PM   #5941
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
I think a lot of people are still making comments like "Peja's lack of defense really hurts in this league." I know I was. But really, a lot of teams are gonna end up with some mediocre role players playing the wings. Especially when the mantra appears to be that defense > offense, every GM seems to want to grab some solid wing & post defenders.

Again, guys like Redd are already going. There are still good scorers out there, but past round 4ish, I'm just not seeing a ton of great scoring out there. Guys who could expose Peja somewhat? Sure. But it's not like Peja is going to end up on Jordan every night.
Personally, I'll admit that so far its look like I constantly overestimated the calibre of players that would drop to me. If I had to guess I'd say that will continue, so I agree with you here.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:19 PM   #5942
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertJohn View Post
20 heads with 6-man rosters would be pretty sick for this type of thing I think.

Someone mentioned teaming Camby with Jordan as wasting potential but I disagree. That’s a great combo in terms of toughness, defense, and they're both big-game type players. I agree with Shaq/Eddie a little bit though as wasted potential.

I mean getting Shaq first round is so awesome and just like with Jordan, I would have to think long and hard about who to team those guys with. Granted, we never saw Eddie with Shaq in his prime, and Eddie is definitely underrated, but I’m sure you could have chosen someone more effective.

Who else were you considering besides Eddie? Is there a chance he would have slipped to third round?
EJ is getting underrated by a lot of the posters here imo.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:20 PM   #5943
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
for the record, there are surprisingly a few good 2 guards that are eligible.
word
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:21 PM   #5944
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Daddy Cool View Post
i vaguely remember kiki, didn't realize he was such a baller. he put up lots of points and his shooting % looks tremendous with solid PER.
I considered Kiki, but from everything I"ve heard he was just horrendous on defense.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:22 PM   #5945
van_exel_fan
grinder
 
van_exel_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: witness protection
Posts: 539
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Not sure who I'm picking (I was going to take Aguirre). I will have my pick up at halftime of Lakers game...
van_exel_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:22 PM   #5946
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
As would I or anyone who knew basketball.

However for Seadood argument sake, Shaq was a very overrated passer. He only averaged 2.7 assists for his career.

And McHale who is known as a blackhole, averaged 2.0 assists for his career.

I think Shaq was a very overrated passer, and McHale was a very underrated passer, and I am using stats to back it up using the Seadood theorm.
Shaq's career AST%: 14.5 (peaking at 19.3 in 1999-00)
McHale's career AST%: 8.1 (peaking at 10.8 in 1985-86)

My stats are better, and show Shaq is a far superior passer to McHale, and thusly shows that his passing abilities are not overrated, and McHale's passing abilities are not underrated.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:23 PM   #5947
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
sheesh, love that the same people who bashed kiki love aguirre.

Kiki >>> Aguirre offensively
Aguirre>Kiki defensively

Also, lol at Aguirre being the best pure score on the board for a long time when Kiki is hugely ahead in all metrics such as TS%, EFG%, ORtg, OWS.

While I realize he put up nice bulk stats on bad teams, he did it by having almost chucker level efficiency in comparison.
i've already said this once, but i need to show MEBenhoe some love here: He's absolutely rigt.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:24 PM   #5948
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Kiki > any SF taken in the 2nd round

Discuss
From wiki:

"As a player, Vandeweghe was regarded as a poor defensive player and rebounder, but an excellent scorer and outside shooter."
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:26 PM   #5949
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
From wiki:

"As a player, Vandeweghe was regarded as a poor defensive player and rebounder, but an excellent scorer and outside shooter."
heh, that was somewhat hyperbole to generate discussion. But a lot of it is gonna depend on what players I can fill out the team with. With the right support Kiki's ability to score like crazy could end up being awesome. I really think people are still underrating to this point the ability to score like crazy and do it efficiently.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 09:27 PM   #5950
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Fantastic pick. I knew he was being taken here, so can't say much else, but for sure the BPA.
I think "for sure BPA" is a little too strong, but yes, a very solid pick.

Re: Kiki/Aguirre,

Everyone in the "how can you hate Kiki and like Aguirre" camp are severely underestimating two things. First, Kiki's D << Aguirre's D. I'm judging this mainly on testimonials. The fact that Aguirre played a key role on the Detroit Bad Boys championship runs means he at least won't kill you. Also notice his DRtg drops significantly here. That's due to the team. Team defense is very important. JoA put him on a team with an elite defensive center and a solid defensive PG. MEb put Kiki on a team with another poor wing defender and a strong defensive PF/C (I think calling Brand elite is pushing it.. D-Rob def gives you more at the 5 spot than Brand can at the 4).

Second, rebounding and passing. These are important elements of the game. Aguirre has a very significant edge over Kiki in these categories. No doubt Kik's instant offense is better, so maybe they balance out, but as of now JoA's team has much better balance and is adept at everything. MEb's isn't.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive