Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2008, 08:28 PM   #5901
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

alright, I've been away for about 20 hours which is a ton of missed posts in this thread.....I apologize in advance for the fact that I'm probably going to make like 30 posts in a row as I read through everything I missed and I may mention stuff thats already been mentioned, but theres no way I'm reading through everything and then going back and reading it again to quote stuff I want to reply to....
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:29 PM   #5902
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
You bet your ascot I would.
As would I or anyone who knew basketball.

However for Seadood argument sake, Shaq was a very overrated passer. He only averaged 2.7 assists for his career.

And McHale who is known as a blackhole, averaged 2.0 assists for his career.

I think Shaq was a very overrated passer, and McHale was a very underrated passer, and I am using stats to back it up using the Seadood theorm.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:30 PM   #5903
tbach24
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tbach24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: @tbach2
Posts: 11,476
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
alright, I've been away for about 20 hours which is a ton of missed posts in this thread.....I apologize in advance for the fact that I'm probably going to make like 30 posts in a row as I read through everything I missed and I may mention stuff thats already been mentioned, but theres no way I'm reading through everything and then going back and reading it again to quote stuff I want to reply to....
Yeah I'm gonna do the same thing tomorrow morning. Except replace 20 hours with like 40. And by 30 posts with 1 MEGA POST (literally will be a couple thousand words).

More importantly, I'm on deck, and have a guy I want, but I'm very open to trade talks. Anyone who wants to trade up PM me.
tbach24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:32 PM   #5904
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,272
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Mano -

yea, Malone had a tendency to make ppl look small. Detlef could play inside. Not against Malone, but who really could?

D
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:32 PM   #5905
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
A TS of .540 is not not low at all, particularly for a post player. Ewing, Hakeem, and Duncan were in the .550s... That is pretty sexy company imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
McHale has a career TS% of .605 (with a lack of a long peak too), with years of .617, .623, .655, .656, .623

Ship the freakin surest 2 points in bball pls
LOL@ bringing u McHale here. E Pip.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:32 PM   #5906
Chris Daddy Cool
The ****ing best
 
Chris Daddy Cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: GAMBOL
Posts: 10,582
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

that seatle team with GP, Kemp and Depleph was pretty sick. too bad they ran into jordan.

was wondering when b-diddy would go. i love his skills and physical tools obviously but he's a health risk and he's not terribly efficient. if you can convince him to stop chucking up 5 3's a game, he'd be even more awesome than he is now. worthy, bosh and b-diddy is a v nice athletic team that will be able to run and score at will.
Chris Daddy Cool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:33 PM   #5907
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

sheesh, love that the same people who bashed kiki love aguirre.

Kiki >>> Aguirre offensively
Aguirre>Kiki defensively

Also, lol at Aguirre being the best pure score on the board for a long time when Kiki is hugely ahead in all metrics such as TS%, EFG%, ORtg, OWS.

While I realize he put up nice bulk stats on bad teams, he did it by having almost chucker level efficiency in comparison.

Last edited by MEb; 05-21-2008 at 08:42 PM.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:33 PM   #5908
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfc View Post
As someone with no interest in the outcome, here's my take on the Penny deal:

Victor and KLJ have made very compelling arguments about the knee injury and various surgery details (sorry about your knee, victor. i've got 2 bad ankles and 1 bad knee that i can play on right now, but i'm dreading the future...) , and at this point, I'd say he's definitely in the "injury prone" camp.

As for Penny when healthy, though, he's a monster, and him with Duncan is one of the strongest pairings in the draft so far.
agreed completely
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:34 PM   #5909
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
ok obv I was just estimating due to the sudden drop off while Barkley was still young, but regardless there is obv no doubt he would have been worse had the 5 second rule been in place (which it will be in this league.)
LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Wasn't this one of your main points throughout the thread that you brought up countless times? And you were "just estimating" when the rule was implemented and then using that as part of your argument?
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:35 PM   #5910
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
As would I or anyone who knew basketball.

However for Seadood argument sake, Shaq was a very overrated passer. He only averaged 2.7 assists for his career.

And McHale who is known as a blackhole, averaged 2.0 assists for his career.

I think Shaq was a very overrated passer, and McHale was a very underrated passer, and I am using stats to back it up using the Seadood theorm.
This one is easy.

Shaq was a post-up guy who played with a bunch of 3pt shooters for pretty much his entire career. He had less assists because his first pass wasn't always the guy shooting, as the ball would get swung around to the weak side. The NBA doesn't count asists like hockey, but if they did guys like Timmay and Shaq would have much more. KG is a little different because he played a little further from the basket, which is why his assists are higher.

Your boy rarely passed out of double-teams, he usually got into his offense right away, and wasn't the best at finding the open guy out of the double.... plus the double rarely came from the strong side (Bird's man).
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:35 PM   #5911
cowboy2579
adept
 
cowboy2579's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 2+2 obv
Posts: 1,104
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I pick in 8 picks, want to move up. PM me if interested.
cowboy2579 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:36 PM   #5912
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
No one corrected me otherwise, and I have said it a bunch of times before now, so I assumed it was fact.
the "estimate, nobody corrects me, I must be right" line of thought.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:36 PM   #5913
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
As would I or anyone who knew basketball.

However for Seadood argument sake, Shaq was a very overrated passer. He only averaged 2.7 assists for his career.

And McHale who is known as a blackhole, averaged 2.0 assists for his career.

I think Shaq was a very overrated passer, and McHale was a very underrated passer, and I am using stats to back it up using the Seadood theorm.
Classic making crap up. Nice round up dude.

Just look at AST% it's not close. And part of Shaq's excellent passing was his use of the post reset which helped disrupt double teaming.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:36 PM   #5914
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Barkley's defensive rating is better than McHales. He had more defensive win shares, and played on more up tempo teams. McHale averaged 30mpg, Barkley averaged 36, that's 20% less time on the floor. What good is having a great player when he's not on the floor?

Oh but wait, he had ONE SEASON where he averaged 40 MPG!! Extrapolate that and he's da best playa evaaaaaaaa!

And yes I'm old and I have seen them both play in their primes and at the end of their careers. McHale was the beneficiary of a lot of great teammates. There's absolutely zero chance he's this effective as the #1 option. zero. zip. zilch. nada. none.

Ok I'm done with this, should have been a long time ago.
This is some quality work here imo.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:37 PM   #5915
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
This one is easy.

Shaq was a post-up guy who played with a bunch of 3pt shooters for pretty much his entire career. He had less assists because his first pass wasn't always the guy shooting, as the ball would get swung around to the weak side. The NBA doesn't count asists like hockey, but if they did guys like Timmay and Shaq would have much more. KG is a little different because he played a little further from the basket, which is why his assists are higher.

Your boy rarely passed out of double-teams, he usually got into his offense right away, and wasn't the best at finding the open guy out of the double.
But I backed it up using stats, and ignored ur reasons of logic, like how u ignored my reasons of logic when I said that McHale always took the toughest post player (and Barkley likley took the weakest) and McHale a lot of the times guarded SF's as well.

So um ya, Seadood theorem McHale is not much worse at passing than Shaq.

Last edited by EPiPeN11; 05-21-2008 at 08:44 PM.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:38 PM   #5916
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

MEb,

was never really bashing Kiki. I think he went about where he should. I just question the pick on YOUR team. You're underrating rebounds/passing as well.

Assani,

It's MAJOR gayballs to carpet bomb this thread when all you do is have pointless arguments with Epip and egg him on. It's borderline trolling just knock it off and respond the real meat.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:39 PM   #5917
MikeyPatriot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MikeyPatriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sack Mike Goldberg
Posts: 11,891
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mano View Post
Anyone remember the DePaul teams with Aguirre and Cummings? Maybe the best college teams I have seen that didn't win the NC (IIRC they went undefeated in regular season once or twice).
My grandfather had season tickets dating way back to those late-70s/early-80s teams, and he would always rave about Mark Aguirre. Was wondering where he'd go after the Cummings pick.

D-E-M-O-N-S
MikeyPatriot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:40 PM   #5918
battschr
veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere where I don\'t know where I am.
Posts: 2,931
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I would like to trade both of my players, and the rest of my draft for McHale, if possible.
battschr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:41 PM   #5919
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by battschr View Post
I would like to trade both of my players, and the rest of my draft for McHale, if possible.
Who are ur 2 players? I will take it under consideration
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:43 PM   #5920
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
Bobbo,

sick pick bro Eddie was definitely very high on my list of guys. Very underrated and truly awesome.
+1
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:46 PM   #5921
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
But I backed it up using stats, kinda like how u ignored the reasons I said that McHale always took the toughest post player (and Barkley likley took the weakest) and McHale a lot of the times guarded SF's as well.

So um ya, Seadood theorem McHale is not much worse at passing than Shaq.
You backed it up using two posts from a basketball forum and a playoff game against Nique where Bird and Nique were lighting it up. I didn't think that needed explanation.

Ok I am seriously done with this now, sorry to clog up the thread.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:47 PM   #5922
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Also:http://bbs.clutchfans.net/archive/in...p/t-34839.html

"06-05-2002, 12:35 PM
McHale got a majority of the mintes at PF, but you are right that BIrd did start some of the games at PF. THe Roberts guy played forward for awhile (SF), Maxwell played for awhile as the starter, as did McHale during Bill Walton's tenure.
I guess in most cases Bird was a SF when the 3 (Chief, McHale, BIrd) was int he game together but I can understand listing him as a PF.
MChale was the one guy who could totally frustrate CB4 in the old Sixer days. Long arms absolutely destroyed him."

CB4 = Barkley ldo

And this gem:

"Originally posted by Drexlerfan22
Yeah, but where's Malone's defense? Besides perhaps Bird, Malone is the worst defender of the six.



Malone was on the All-NBA Defensive 1st team three years in a row ('97, '98, '99). You might be thinking of Barkley, who was voted the Worst Defensive Player of All-Time in one poll."

LOL

And omg I'm not crazy:

"giddyup06-06-2002, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by hoopgod13
Ya honestly...there is no competition for this category.

Did you ever see Kevin McHale play? His low post game is just the kind of attack that the Rockets need.

I gave McHale a close nod over Malone, though."



"TheFreak06-06-2002, 03:31 PM
I don't understand all the votes for McHale. Bird made that guy. Imagine any of the other guys on the list on the same team as Bird, and then think about whether you want to vote for McHale or not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drexlerfan2206-06-2002, 03:49 PM
With all due respect to Larry Bird, I don't think Bird made McHale. It's hard to make a guy when he showed most of his scoring isolated on the low post. On the defensive end, it was McHale making Bird look good, not the other way around. Sure, McHale benefitted from some wicked passes, but he's still one of the best PFs ever."

I think this is pretty funny....

You're arguing against someone who watched McHale play. And you're arguing by using other message board posts(from people who may, like you, have not seen him play).

That'd be like me using someone else's post in this thread as proof of my opinion.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:47 PM   #5923
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
MEb,

was never really bashing Kiki. I think he went about where he should. I just question the pick on YOUR team.
Wasn't referring to you in particular. Moreso to the fact that one of the biggest critics of Kiki was the guy who took Aguirre.

Also, I guess all I can say is wait to see how it all plays out. I have a plan for my team and Kiki fits into it well. As long as other parts fall into place like i hope/think they will I should be looking good.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:48 PM   #5924
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
You backed it up using two posts from a basketball forum and a playoff game against Nique where Bird and Nique were lighting it up. I didn't think that needed explanation.

Ok I am seriously done with this now, sorry to clog up the thread.
A ton of people have said McHale guarded other teams SF's a decent amount of the time.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:50 PM   #5925
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Not sure what I think about Camby. I think hes overrated definitely on defense by the casual fan. And he isn't very efficient at all. But he does rebound and he still is a good defender. At this point I guess its a decent pick, although I cna think of a few players(who I will give absolutey no hints about) who I would've liked better there.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive