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Old 05-21-2008, 02:08 PM   #5776
kidcolin
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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This is directed at me I guess,
pretty sure it's directed at xorb, who said something about how you could have matched up Shaq with someone to make them all but unstoppable. I haven't thought about it too much but I'm curious who he means.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:10 PM   #5777
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
2nd round SFs:

Melo
Peja
Mullin
Cummings
Rice
Jones
Eddie is a SG/SF, so he shouldn't be on this list. But:

Melo is very similar scoring wise, but slightly better at everything else.
Peja is actually a very good comparison, and this just shows that Peja went too early rather than you getting sick value in the 3rd with Kiki.
Mullin is likely the best player out of all those guys, again, showed it was amazing how he slipped.
Cummings again is similar yet slightly better..
I think Kiki may be better than Rice.

If you are listing Eddie, whatever gap in offense is MORE than made up in defense, you're comparing a ++defender to a --defender. Not even close.

For my own personal ranks, I'd prob go... Mullin > Melo > Cummings > Eddie > Kiki > Peja > Rice.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:11 PM   #5778
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I've liked the last few picks. I've done some research trying to keep up with the league and the last three guys were all solidly on my radar

Still have a few guys I have in mind; I'm curious to see where they go and if I know what I'm doing
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:17 PM   #5779
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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For my own personal ranks, I'd prob go... Mullin > Melo > Cummings > Eddie > Kiki > Peja > Rice.
sigh I guess I have to. No way on Melo.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:18 PM   #5780
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I grunched the last few pages, so sorry if this was answered already. What's the word on Kiki's 3pt shooting? He didnt shoot that many, but for his career, he made a good percentage (37%). But if you look at his seasonal numbers, they can be all over the place due to sample size (13% one year and then led the league at 48% the next).

Thoughts?
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:24 PM   #5781
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

once he started shooting ~2 a game, he was consistently in the high .30s getting pretty close to .40. I think that's enough to give him credit as a very good 3pt shooter. That's what I've been doing for the oldies, anyway. The game just wasn't geared towards it then and I find it hard to penalize guys who have are by all accounts great shooters. It's only the guys who shoot <1 a game I remain really skeptic about.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:30 PM   #5782
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
For my own personal ranks, I'd prob go... Mullin > Melo > Cummings > Eddie > Kiki > Peja > Rice.
you mixed up cummings/melo. probably just a typo.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:31 PM   #5783
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

kc/la - fair enough, but the ratings still are essentially the same. (Mullin the best)
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:39 PM   #5784
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm just wondering what criteria you guys are using to determine how good a player was defensively. Your own personal opinion from watching games on TV or seeing highlights?? The opinion of an NBA analyst? Surely not D-rating and win shares, they belie the skills of someone like Moncrief. We are getting to the point where almost all of the NBA All-Defensive 1st and 2nd teams have been taken, except the ones who are/were pedestrian on offense like Bowen. The reason I ask is because it seems like in many cases someone will pick a player and say "he was good at defense" and everyone will all just accept it as fact.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:42 PM   #5785
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

best ways to determining defense are defensive rebounds, steals, blocks, and fouls, all per 36 (or %, relative to others at their position). DRtg/DWS is acceptable. Individual awards do mean something.

Nothing is perfect but it does show greatness/goodness/mediocrity/badness/terribleness.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:44 PM   #5786
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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kc/la - fair enough, but the ratings still are essentially the same. (Mullin the best)
I like your style.

BTW very nice pick with Eddie.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:45 PM   #5787
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

DRtg is good if you know how to use it. Absurdly high DRtg's are very bad, absurdly low ones are very good. The in between-ers take a look at the teams they played on, their other stats, etc.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:57 PM   #5788
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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DRtg is good if you know how to use it. Absurdly high DRtg's are very bad, absurdly low ones are very good. The in between-ers take a look at the teams they played on, their other stats, etc.
Fact: Kiki is the worst defender chosen yet.
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:01 PM   #5789
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Fact: Kiki is the worst defender chosen yet.
Just get Larry Brown as coach and he'd be like Pippen on d imo.
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:16 PM   #5790
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Fact: Kiki is the worst defender chosen yet.
worse than marbury?
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:17 PM   #5791
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Just get Larry Brown as coach and he'd be like Pippen on d imo.
With the medical advancements since the 80's the team doctors will be able to make Kiki twice as athletic and 6 inches taller. This will make him a much better player for this exercise.

His back will also be made of steal plate armor.
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:19 PM   #5792
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
With the medical advancements since the 80's.
I the medical advancement arguments. Sure, things are better now than from 1990 but ffs it sounds like half the arguments are basing it on like the 1490's. Am I wrong? WTF huuuuuge medical advancement has there been in the last 10 yrs?
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:20 PM   #5793
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by vixticator View Post
I the medical advancement arguments. Sure, things are better now than from 1990 but ffs it sounds like half the arguments are basing it on like the 1490's. Am I wrong? WTF huuuuuge medical advancement has there been in the last 10 yrs?
Steal plate armor backs and knee ligaments made from the rarest tree branches in the rain forests.
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:24 PM   #5794
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

someone find a picture of kyle from SP when he became black
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:12 PM   #5795
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Big Cat the next guy hasn't posted in 5 days..........hopefully he will be back.
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:16 PM   #5796
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

his friend "Big Chips" posted shortly after it was Big Cat's turn to pick.
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:26 PM   #5797
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Bigcat has 29 posts on this site, 28 are in this and the premiership draft threads.
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:38 PM   #5798
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

hopefully bigchips 2nd account picks soon
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:38 PM   #5799
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The last couple times, BigCat would show up right when it was his turn to pick.

RE - Kiki:

He's one of the top scorers left, and contrary to what some think he actually thrived in the half court. Great moves all over, but pretty selfish everywhere else. Defense has been mentioned, but I'll just add that I've seen him play a few games, and nothing would lead me to believe that the stats lie. Melos D>Kiki's.

Dunno how I feel about the pick yet.
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:40 PM   #5800
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lol someone email biiig chips
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