Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2008, 01:48 AM   #5701
BigLawMonies
Pooh-Bah
 
BigLawMonies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charm City
Posts: 3,584
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Kool Aid View Post
or a power forward center type player who can finish alley oops from dre miller and also grab the occasional rebound.

i'm thinking stromile swift with a few more brain cells..
**** I know exactly the player too.

....i want to be on GKA's team.
BigLawMonies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 01:52 AM   #5702
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post

If anyone wants to trade down (lol, I'm sure there are) PM me or whatever.
Tbach called me and requested I make a post for him (he self banned himself apparently until thursday) that he's looking to move down, just PM him some offers.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:01 AM   #5703
TheQuietAnarchist
Formerly xorbie
 
TheQuietAnarchist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,826
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I disagree with a lot of people over a lot of these picks. I think people keep saying things like "scoring is the easiest thing to get" but looking at how things have played out I see a lot of players I thought would drop to the 3rd/4th are either gone or going and a lot of players may go in the 4th who I thought would fall to the 5th/6th.

Eddie Jones is a good pick, but I think there were other picks you could have made to make this team essentially unstoppable offensively. Shaq is good defensively of course and with Eddie you can make a real balanced team but I feel like taking Eddie here when guys like Redd/Andre Miller are already going means you may not get a real good wing scorer or offensive PG 40 picks from now. I'll add more later when other guys get selected that I thought were better here.

Andre, otoh, I really like. With everyone talking about Penny, here is a guy who plays 70+ games basically every year for you, and gets like 14/8 avg with a pretty strong peak. He doesn't shoot the 3 very well but he has some range and distributes very well without a ton of TO. Also gets to the rim fairly well. Basically a poor man's Tony Parker with better passing that you know will stay healthy barring a freak injury.

Dice, I was wondering when he would go while watching Game 1 tonight. You can't ignore him on defense and he has no real glaring problems besides injury concerns. I think he's a strong role player with a good peak but definitely not the best value available, and his defense is good but not fantastic so again. With Sid and Vince, you get a really athletic group for the start, so can be a real good fit if you can draft around it.

Camby... meh. Again with Jordan I feel like you could do a lot of really interesting things that make your team really stand out. Jordan/Camby is obviously a very strong defensive duo and give you some freedom to go get some scoring later, there's the problem that you still want a decent defensive big because Camby is a little fragile and not the best 1v1 post defender to begin with (although he is a v. good shot blocker obviously). There are a few people I had in mind that would have been perhaps higher variance, higher upside picks (and EV).
TheQuietAnarchist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:10 AM   #5704
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
this is about Andre Miller -

note that he's slightly below average defensively though, and the thing he does extraordinarily well (pass) his team has covered. so... can't say it's the best choice
The thing with his team is, you can easily see these guys cutting and passing their way into all sorts of dunks/wide open 3's. Defensively I don't see how they are worse than the current Lakers incarnation at this point.

Now he just as to get some more guys who can hit from there.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:11 AM   #5705
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

just because Gasol and Pierce are +passers doesn't mean a true point hurts your team. It's sorta nice when Gasol/Pierce can just hit open buckets. otoh I think you coulda slept on a PG and gotten another team need here.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:17 AM   #5706
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

One other great thing about having Gasol, Pierce, and to a lesser extent Dre is that they all have the ability to just say **** it and manufacture their own shot. It's a sweet combo that would've totally slipped my mind had I been in GKA's shoes.

Plus you've got three guys who are extremely loved by their fans.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:19 AM   #5707
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
The thing with his team is, you can easily see these guys cutting and passing their way into all sorts of dunks/wide open 3's. Defensively I don't see how they are worse than the current Lakers incarnation at this point.

Now he just as to get some more guys who can hit from there.
they likely wont be worse defensively than the lakers of this year, but that's not saying a whole lot. the lakers were 6th in this category, well behind teams like the celts (blew everyone away) rockets (again, blew everyone away) spurs (3rd by a good margin) pistons (4th by a good margin) then the magic. (tied with the lakers, hornets, and a slew of other teams were close).

problem is they wont be nearly as offensively driven, since the lakers of this year were mega studly in that category. (3rd behind phx and jazz) i cant say too much else, but also... this years lakers may not win the title, anyway, etc etc..
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:21 AM   #5708
negtv capability
adept
 
negtv capability's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Don't worry. Be happy.
Posts: 1,186
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

7 favorite selections after 2 rounds in order
#1 Chris Mullin (67)
#2 Sid Moncrief (60)
#3 Reggie Miller (34)
#4 Kobe Bryant (10)
#5 Marcus Camby (80)
#6 Carlos Boozer (65)
#7 Dennis Rodman (47)

7 least favorite selections after 2 rounds in order
#1 Stephon Marbury (68)
#2 David Robinson (8)
#3 Peja Stojakovic (62)
#4 Vlade Divac (76)
#5 Deron Williams (49)
#6 Larry Nance (53)
#7 Tracy McGrady (28)

7 favorite pairs in order
#1 Jordan/ Camby
#2 Garnett/ Laimbeer
#3 Miller/ Rodman
#4 Iverson/ Wallace
#5 Duncan/ Hardaway
#6 Stockton/ Mullin
#7 Nowitzki/ Boozer

7 least favorite pairs in order
#1 Mutumbo/ Arenas
#2 Mourning/ Williams
#3 Barkley/ Marbury
#4 Kidd/ Richmond
#5 Marion/ Williams
#6 McGrady/ Parker
#7 Worthy/ Bosh
negtv capability is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:23 AM   #5709
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Based on your 7 least favorites your opinion is of little value to me.. and it's really got nothing to do with Vlade

edit: and some of your favorite pairings
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:24 AM   #5710
BJLTNYK
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BJLTNYK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 14,406
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I would try to own you but your lists pretty much speak for themselves.

My favorite pick though is MJ at #1...IDK what you're smoking.
BJLTNYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:25 AM   #5711
Steroid Boy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Steroid Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Backpacking Bananas
Posts: 42,156
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i couldnt agree w/ his pairings rankings more







obv b/c I'm #1
Steroid Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:32 AM   #5712
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

So who's going to be the next person after me to man up and take a high risk/high reward player?
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:34 AM   #5713
sergsz
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,330
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
So who's going to be the next person after me to man up and take a high risk/high reward player?
High risk/high reward is penny or grant hill... With marbury you know what you are getting, and it's not very rewarding.
sergsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:35 AM   #5714
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

yeah, your list is whack. for one, who makes a top SEVEN list? for two, kobe is on your favorite picks @ 10 - wtf? what spot do you think he should've been taken then? 10 is pretty much what he should've gone. clearly you're a kobe fanatic. you also list dennis rodman as one of your favorite picks, and i think your list is "best player available," which he clearly wasnt, so... nice job.
you list Drob as a least favorite selection, which again, is lol. you also list vlade, which is lol again. then you go on to list 3 more great picks (nance, deron, and tmac) so at this poitn i cant tell if you're serious or leveling.
you list dirk and boozer as your favorite pair, so i think i should've read your entire post before responding, but ive already typed this, so be it.
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:36 AM   #5715
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
High risk/high reward is penny or grant hill... With marbury you know what you are getting, and it's not very rewarding.
Don't think you have much ground to stand on here. I made some compelling arguments in my write-up and post 5074.
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 02:45 AM   #5716
BJLTNYK
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BJLTNYK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 14,406
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

No, no you didn't...Marbury blows.
BJLTNYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:00 AM   #5717
DontRaisePlz
old hand
 
DontRaisePlz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: mountain dew machine
Posts: 1,565
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

GKA I like the way you think. "beautiful basketball" FTW.
DontRaisePlz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:07 AM   #5718
RobertJohn
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 525
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Hey just perused the sticky - cool idea for a thread. Here's some thoughts to stimulate discussion/hatred:

TOP TANDEMS IMO IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER:

Nance/Ewing– can compete with anybody, freakish physical/athletic specimens. Long, intimidating defenders. I would probably be putting my money on these guys to go deep.

Stockton/Mullin- awesome combo, I would be very pleased these two given your # picks. Please go big. I think this is the only dream team combo.

Miller/Rodman– clutch at what they do, great tandem, guaranteed efficiency on both ends

Jordan/Camby– toughness, heart, size, + his airness. They will go deep obv.

Garnett/Laimbeer– great versatile intimidating front line –would love to see them go at Nance/Ewing.

Olajuwon/Rice – perhaps the sickest inside/out combo.

Duncan/Penny– Duncan’s never been teamed with a guard as versatile and gifted offensively as Penny in his narrow prime. TP and Manu are great scorers, but Penny could get his own shots and put points on the board right along Tim. This is another great in/out combo.

Magic/Redd– I’m not too familiar with Redd’s game, but no matter how good it is (or could potentially be), you must improve it in theory b/c Magic will undoubtedly make every teammate better.

Bird/Divac– shame you couldn’t get an elite big to team with Bird, but Divac is an awesome team player and very savvy. Good scorer.

HONORABLE MENTIONS:

Shaq/Jones – Any team with Shaq in his prime has potential to win it all. Jones was a great teammate of Shaq’s and those too worked well together. Please pick Nick in the later rounds for the reunion. This actually may be a better combo than Bird/Divac, b/c Jones is an equally savvy, smart player, but a better scorer and he was clutch too.

Barkley/Marbury – Barkley is of course an awesome pick and he might have been able to put Marbury in his place and get him to focus on running the O, but definitely a combo with scary potential. Especially if you can find a pick that would either bolster your frontcourt depth (you have to go after Laimbeer/Garnett and Nance/Ewing after all) or find a wing player who could add another dimension offensively.

Worthy/Bosh – Magic called Big Game James the most beautiful player he’s every played with. It’s early in Bosh’s career, but he also has similar grace and athleticism that makes this an awesome, versatile frontcourt. Find a ballhandler who can shoot and you have a great trio.

Price/Stoudemire – Scary potential. Price never played with a more dominant/game-changing inside scorer and with this combo the ball will be well taken care of with a high offensive efficiency inside and out.

Moncrief/Carter – Imagining having to guard these two on the break makes my head spin. Find someone to get the ball to them and can run the break.

Last edited by MEb; 05-21-2008 at 07:26 AM.
RobertJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:09 AM   #5719
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJLTNYK View Post
No, no you didn't...Marbury blows.
I like seeing posts like this, it tells me that you are already biased against Marbury without considering the format of this league, and since you couldn't come up with any logical counterpoint to my arguments, you invoked the end-all ad hominem attack. NH and WP.
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:09 AM   #5720
nutshot2
 
nutshot2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 48,746
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

edit the last post someone, last paragraph
nutshot2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:11 AM   #5721
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yes, quickly, before the people ahead of me who have never heard of him see it and start looking up his stats.
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:11 AM   #5722
.Alex.
Pooh-Bah
 
.Alex.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Playa del Carmen
Posts: 5,737
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
I disagree with a lot of people over a lot of these picks. I think people keep saying things like "scoring is the easiest thing to get" but looking at how things have played out I see a lot of players I thought would drop to the 3rd/4th are either gone or going and a lot of players may go in the 4th who I thought would fall to the 5th/6th.

Eddie Jones is a good pick, but I think there were other picks you could have made to make this team essentially unstoppable offensively. Shaq is good defensively of course and with Eddie you can make a real balanced team but I feel like taking Eddie here when guys like Redd/Andre Miller are already going means you may not get a real good wing scorer or offensive PG 40 picks from now. I'll add more later when other guys get selected that I thought were better here.

Andre, otoh, I really like. With everyone talking about Penny, here is a guy who plays 70+ games basically every year for you, and gets like 14/8 avg with a pretty strong peak. He doesn't shoot the 3 very well but he has some range and distributes very well without a ton of TO. Also gets to the rim fairly well. Basically a poor man's Tony Parker with better passing that you know will stay healthy barring a freak injury.

Dice, I was wondering when he would go while watching Game 1 tonight. You can't ignore him on defense and he has no real glaring problems besides injury concerns. I think he's a strong role player with a good peak but definitely not the best value available, and his defense is good but not fantastic so again. With Sid and Vince, you get a really athletic group for the start, so can be a real good fit if you can draft around it.

Camby... meh. Again with Jordan I feel like you could do a lot of really interesting things that make your team really stand out. Jordan/Camby is obviously a very strong defensive duo and give you some freedom to go get some scoring later, there's the problem that you still want a decent defensive big because Camby is a little fragile and not the best 1v1 post defender to begin with (although he is a v. good shot blocker obviously). There are a few people I had in mind that would have been perhaps higher variance, higher upside picks (and EV).
Yeah, everyone outside of maybe the top 3 is going to need more than one elite scorer. I almost think people are bandwagoning too far on Assani's first post in the other thread.
.Alex. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:14 AM   #5723
BigLawMonies
Pooh-Bah
 
BigLawMonies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charm City
Posts: 3,584
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Coop played in 78 = disqualified
BigLawMonies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:19 AM   #5724
AC-Cobra
Pooh-Bah
 
AC-Cobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Giving a **** when it's not my turn
Posts: 5,207
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ill recap the thread later when I have time, but wtf with my list being decimated again. Camby and Grant were my next guys after Lambeer and Divac, no fair.
AC-Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 03:23 AM   #5725
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round 2 Recap

1. Chauncey Billups, PG (Epeen)
2. Pau Gasol, PF/C (GKA)
3. Ray Allen, SG (MEbenhoe)
4. Chris Bosh, PF (BigChips)
5. Joe Dumars, SG (AC-Cobra)
6. Gilbert Arenas, PG/SG (sergz)
7. Dennis Rodman, PF (van_exel_fan)
8. Shawn Kemp, PF (tbach)
9. Deron Williams, PG (tdarko)
10. Ben Wallace, C/PF (fanmail)
11. Carmelo Anthony, SF (SammyKid)
12. Andrew Bynum, C (NopairParker)
13. Larry Nance, PF/C (ClarkNizzle)
14. Manu Ginobili, SG (mmbt0ne)
15. Rasheed Wallace, PF/C (cowboy)
16. Brad Daugherty, C (battschr)
17. Kevin Johnson, PG (Dr. Zoidberg)
18. Buck Williams, PF (Nicholasp27)
19. Mark Price, PG (Victor)
20. Sidney Moncrief, SG (KLJ)
21. Mitch Richmond, SG (BJLTNYK)
22. Peja Stojakovic, SF/SG (FaDi)
23. Tony Parker, PG (Dudd)
24. Tim Hardaway, PG (capone0)
25. Carlos Boozer, PF (dtemp)
26. Jermaine O'Neal, C/PF (flyingmoose)
27. Chris Mullin, SF/SG (Franchise)
28. Stephon Marbury, PG (HighStakesPro)
29. Alvin Robertson, PG (LurchySoprano)
30. Terry Cummings, SF (Shark Doc)
31. Al Jefferson, PF/C (.Alex.)
32. Bill Laimbeer, C (Seadood)
33. Terry Porter, PG (JackOfArcades)
34. Glen Rice, SF/SG (BigChips)
35. Penny Hardaway, SG/PG (Assani)
36. Vlade Divac, C (kidcolin)
37. Michael Redd, SG (RUFFNECK)
38. Horace Grant, PF/C (horizon)
39. Eddie Jones, SG (Bobbo)
40. Marcus Camby, C (Steroid Boy)

Round 2 by Position
PG
Chauncey Billups
Deron Williams
Kevin Johnson
Mark Price
Tony Parker
Tim Hardaway
Stephon Marbury
Alvin Robertson
Terry Porter
Penny Hardaway

SG
Ray Allen
Joe Dumars
Gilbert Arenas
Manu Ginobili
Sidney Moncrief
Mitch Richmond
Micheal Redd
Eddie Jones

SF
Carmelo Anthony
Peja Stojakovic
Chris Mullin
Terry Cummings
Glen Rice

PF
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Dennis Rodman
Shawn Kemp
Larry Nance
Rasheed Wallace
Buck Williams
Carlos Boozer
Big Al Jefferson
Horace Grant

C
Ben Wallace
Andrew Bynum (seriously)
Brad Daugherty
Jermaine O'Neal
Bill Laimbeer
Vlade Divac
Marcus Camby

Teams So Far

1 Steroid Boy - Michael Jordan, Marcus Camby
2 BobboFitos - Shaq, Eddie Jones
3 horizon - LeBron James, Horace Grant
4 RUFFNECK - Magic Johnson, Micheal Redd
5 kidcolin - Larry Bird, Vlade Divac
6 Assani Fisher - Tim Duncan, Penny Hardaway
7 BiiiigChips - Hakeem Olajuwon, Glen Rice
8 Jack of Arcades - David Robinson, Terry Porter
9 Seadood228 - Kevin Garnett, Bill Laimbeer
10 Alex - Kobe Bryant, Big Al Jefferson
11 SHARK DOCTOR - Chris Paul, Terry Cummings
12 LurchySoprano - Karl Malone, Alvin Robertson
13 HighStakesPro - Charles Barkley, Stephon Marbury
14 Franchise 60 - John Stockton, Chris Mullin
15 flyingmoose - Isiah Thomas, Jermaine O'Neal
16 dtemp - Dirk Nowitzki, Carlos Boozer
17 capone0 - Dwight Howard, Tim Hardaway
18 ClarkNasty - Patrick Ewing, Larry Nance
19 FaDi - Clyde Drexler, Peja Stojakovic
20 BJLTNYK - Jason Kidd, Mitch Richmond
21 EPiPeN11 - Kevin McHale, Chauncey Billups
22 Victor - Amare Stoudamire, Mark Price
23 Nicholasp27 - Alonzo Mourning, Buck Williams
24 Dr. Zoidberg - Dominique Wilkins, Kevin Johnson
25 battschr - Scottie Pippen, Brad Daugherty
26 cowboy2579 - Gary Payton, Rasheed Wallace
27 mmbt0ne - Steve Nash, Manu Ginobili
28 Dudd - Tracy McGrady, Tony Parker
29 NopairParker - Dwyane Wade, Andrew Bynum (yeah, really)
30 SammyKid11 - Yao Ming, Carmelo Anthony
31 fanmail - Allen Iverson, Ben Wallace
32 tdarko - Shawn Marion, Deron Williams
33 tbach - Grant Hill, Shawn Kemp
34 van_exel_fan - Reggie Miller, Dennis Rodman
35 sergsz - Dikembe Mutombo, Gilbert Arenas
36 AC-Cobra - Chris Webber, Joe Dumars
37 Big Cat - James Worthy, Chris Bosh
38 MEbenhoe - Elton Brand, Jesus Shuttlesworth
39 GreenKoolAid - Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol (PauPau!)
40 KLJ - Vince Carter, Sid Moncrief
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive