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Old 05-20-2008, 11:42 PM   #5551
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Owned.
fail
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:42 PM   #5552
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

If McHale's teammates hurt his rebounding numbers, surely they helped his efficiency numbers.

PS: league average for TS% is usually around .530. Recent years it's been .540.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:42 PM   #5553
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Where's Bobbo at the ban should be over boooooo at stalls.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:44 PM   #5554
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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If McHale's teammates hurt his rebounding numbers, surely they helped his efficiency numbers.

PS: league average for TS% is usually around .530. Recent years it's been .540.
Of course they did, but he wasn't as helped by great teammates as most players are as he didn't get many open dunks, most of his points were scored from feeding him the ball in the post.

PS: He will obv have great teammates on my team also.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:48 PM   #5555
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Ya when they still didn't have the 5 second rule, once they added it Barkley fell off drastically. (And the 5 second rule will be in this league too).

And Barkley isn't as well rounded as McHale, Barkley's defense blew. McHale has no weak spots in his game.
BS. Barkley had 3 seasons of +.600 TS after that rule. And McHale had more holes than Barkley. McHale's D was overrated, he couldn't pass, couldn't board, and had no lungs.

I have stayed away from your McHale knobslobbing because most of it is ludicrous.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:49 PM   #5556
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Where's Bobbo at the ban should be over boooooo at stalls.
he was at the Cs game I imagine.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:49 PM   #5557
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Don't feed the fishy seadood.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:49 PM   #5558
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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They're getting a retro release this fall.

http://niketalk.yuku.com/topic/65475...CS.html?page=1
sick.

when i was in the 6th grade or whatever i was a ****** when it came to these matters and couldn't wait to sport my new kicks, in which i played ball with and scuffed them on the first day. i was so sad.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:50 PM   #5559
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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he was at the Cs game I imagine.
Well screw me sideways then. He's here now anyway...ask and receieve.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:51 PM   #5560
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

As someone with no interest in the outcome, here's my take on the Penny deal:

Victor and KLJ have made very compelling arguments about the knee injury and various surgery details (sorry about your knee, victor. i've got 2 bad ankles and 1 bad knee that i can play on right now, but i'm dreading the future...) , and at this point, I'd say he's definitely in the "injury prone" camp.

As for Penny when healthy, though, he's a monster, and him with Duncan is one of the strongest pairings in the draft so far.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:51 PM   #5561
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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BS. Barkley had 3 seasons of +.600 TS after that rule. And McHale had more holes than Barkley. McHale's D was overrated, he couldn't pass, couldn't board, and had no lungs.

I have stayed away from your McHale knobslobbing because most of it is ludicrous.
And all those seasons were in the low .600's

lol @ McHale's D being overrated, and lol @ couldn't board. He had no lungs? He played 40 mpg in his 1 prime season.

I will give u his passing ability was kinda weak, but a lot of it was because they wanted him to score when he touched it. He could pass when he wanted to, after Ainge called him a "black hole" McHale followed it up with a 10 assist game.

Barkley's bad defense is by far a bigger hole than anything in McHale's game and it's not even close.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:53 PM   #5562
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Ya when they still didn't have the 5 second rule, once they added it Barkley fell off drastically. (And the 5 second rule will be in this league too).
When was the rule implemented? According to NBA.com, the rule was implemented during Barkley's last season.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

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1999-00
• The official(s) will visually commence a five-second count if an offensive player with the ball and not facing-up starts dribbling below the free throw line extended while being closely guarded; or if he starts dribbling outside and then penetrates below the free throw line extended while being closely guarded. The five-second count commences when the offensive player penetrates the free throw line extended. The penalty is the offensive team’s loss of possession of the ball.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:54 PM   #5563
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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When was the rule implemented? According to NBA.com, the rule was implemented during Barkley's last season.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html
ok obv I was just estimating due to the sudden drop off while Barkley was still young, but regardless there is obv no doubt he would have been worse had the 5 second rule been in place (which it will be in this league.)
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:54 PM   #5564
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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fail
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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
When was the rule implemented? According to NBA.com, the rule was implemented during Barkley's last season.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html
I believe you are the one that failed sir.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:55 PM   #5565
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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ok obv I was just estimating due to the sudden drop off while Barkley was still young, but regardless there is obv no doubt he would have been worse had the 5 second rule been in place (which it will be in this league.)
lol
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:55 PM   #5566
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

It's not like the 5-second rule was around with McHale was around either, he just wasn't good enough to cause it to get implemented.

Having a rule invented is a sign of greatness, just ask Shaq and Wilt.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:55 PM   #5567
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Hey all, I'm back from the Celtics game. (And the suspension) Some thoughts...

re: the Suspension - I had mixed feelings with how to handle it. On one hand I was wrong and violated a rule, on the other the rule is stupid, and to compound matters, the people enforcing the rule are doing so in an altogether far too serious nature. I was initially going to be immature and make you all wait a while (until the "true" 48 hr ban wore off) but that hurts everyone else in the draft rather than helps me, so I'll make my pick shortly.

re: Clark, Tuq, and other (?) SE mods - Guys, I've never been so much as warned on a single 2p2 forum after 3+ years of hardcore posting. I post a lot, (until the past year only strategy) and I'm really quite shocked I've been banned not once, but twice now on the SE forum. I don't even namecall, belittle, over-level, or anything - I just don't multitquote and speak my mind. I still am very excited to watch a summer league game with Clark, and I'm still excited to play pickup with Tuq and dunk in his face.

re: All the picks made - there are have been some great ones and some stinkers. I had compiled a list prior and during the draft of some names I was positive would drop (and I would gobble up in the third) and this list included Alvin Robertson, Penny (or "Anfernee" as I call him), and Cummings. Clearly I underestimated my fellow SE posters, as you guys are really doing a tremendous job.

re: Some specific picks...
*JON was a guy I wanted to trade up for, but the ban took effect and I had no shot of bartering with people. On a personal level I wanted both black O'neals on my team (would be cool for Shaq's uniform to read "Son") and on a practical level JON is on the same level of elite weakside defense as KG and same sort of post defense as Tim Duncan. He guards 4s and 5s both incredibly well - some analysts feel he should've been DPOY last year (and the year before) and his impact on that end (especially paired with Shaq!) would've been devastating.
*I agree, the Marbury pick, especially given the hype, was quite poor. Too many people (especially JOA) mentioned "why", so I'll just echo with a +1. HSP - When you build a pick up like that, make sure it's a good one.
*The "BPA" in the mid to late 2nd round for SURE has to be Chris Mullin. I perhaps made a mistake when I hinted (after Mitch got chosen) he was "the 3rd best player on his team", but the lefty could've gone early 2nd round and it would've seemed "right". Kudos to Franchise for hitting a homerun, and I think the pairing of Stock and Mullin is dynamite so far.

re: Everyone - I'm happy to be back, and I'm going to try my best not to violate the terms of this draft, since I'm enjoying it fully.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:56 PM   #5568
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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ok obv I was just estimating due to the sudden drop off while Barkley was still young, but regardless there is obv no doubt he would have been worse had the 5 second rule been in place (which it will be in this league.)
you've been arguing that he dropped off after the rule was implemented this whole time. uh
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:56 PM   #5569
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

did they get rid of that rule?
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:58 PM   #5570
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Guys when I first brought it up which was like 5 days ago, I said I didn't know what exactly the year it was in, and I assumed it happened during a sudden dropoff during Barkley's peak.

No one corrected me otherwise, and I have said it a bunch of times before now, so I assumed it was fact.

OMG sorries, regardless he'd obv be worse with the rule in place, none of you can dispute that.
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:01 AM   #5571
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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And all those seasons were in the low .600's

lol @ McHale's D being overrated, and lol @ couldn't board. He had no lungs? He played 40 mpg in his 1 prime season.

I will give u his passing ability was kinda weak, but a lot of it was because they wanted him to score when he touched it. He could pass when he wanted to, after Ainge called him a "black hole" McHale followed it up with a 10 assist game.

Barkley's bad defense is by far a bigger hole than anything in McHale's game and it's not even close.
Barkley's defensive rating is better than McHales. He had more defensive win shares, and played on more up tempo teams. McHale averaged 30mpg, Barkley averaged 36, that's 20% less time on the floor. What good is having a great player when he's not on the floor?

Oh but wait, he had ONE SEASON where he averaged 40 MPG!! Extrapolate that and he's da best playa evaaaaaaaa!

And yes I'm old and I have seen them both play in their primes and at the end of their careers. McHale was the beneficiary of a lot of great teammates. There's absolutely zero chance he's this effective as the #1 option. zero. zip. zilch. nada. none.

Ok I'm done with this, should have been a long time ago.
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:02 AM   #5572
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Guys when I first brought it up which was like 5 days ago, I said I didn't know what exactly the year it was in, and I assumed it happened during a sudden dropoff during Barkley's peak.

No one corrected me otherwise, and I have said it a bunch of times before now, so I assumed it was fact.

OMG sorries, regardless he'd obv be worse with the rule in place, none of you can dispute that.
I'd say this is the worst piece of logic I've ever seen, but we've got Not Lolo in the Chipper Jones thread going strong.
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:03 AM   #5573
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Barkley's defensive rating is better than McHales. He had more defensive win shares, and played on more up tempo teams. McHale averaged 30mpg, Barkley averaged 36, that's 20% less time on the floor. What good is having a great player when he's not on the floor?

Oh but wait, he had ONE SEASON where he averaged 40 MPG!! Extrapolate that and he's da best playa evaaaaaaaa!

And yes I'm old and I have seen them both play in their primes and at the end of their careers. McHale was the beneficiary of a lot of great teammates. There's absolutely zero chance he's this effective as the #1 option. zero. zip. zilch. nada. none.

Ok I'm done with this, should have been a long time ago.
but he was coming off the bench (for whatever reason) the first 5 years and injured the last 5 years. his prime was that year and that's what we're going to get
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:06 AM   #5574
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Barkley's defensive rating is better than McHales. He had more defensive win shares, and played on more up tempo teams. McHale averaged 30mpg, Barkley averaged 36, that's 20% less time on the floor. What good is having a great player when he's not on the floor?

Oh but wait, he had ONE SEASON where he averaged 40 MPG!! Extrapolate that and he's da best playa evaaaaaaaa!

And yes I'm old and I have seen them both play in their primes and at the end of their careers. McHale was the beneficiary of a lot of great teammates. There's absolutely zero chance he's this effective as the #1 option. zero. zip. zilch. nada. none.

Ok I'm done with this, should have been a long time ago.
lol so u think Barkley was a better defender than McHale, or even close to McHale in defense? How did McHale make the all nba defensive team 3 times, and the all nba defensive 2nd team 3 times, and Barkley is always regarded as a below average/poor defender? You must have been pretty freakin blind to have seen McHale and make comments like he was near Barkley on defense.

Also it is common knowledge that McHale is one of those 2nd banana superstars who would be fine being the #1 option.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.c...he_lottery.php

"Bird was the leading scorer on his Celts teams, but the #1 option was to pound it into the post to Parrish and McHale. You work it from high-percentage to low-percentage; as great as Bird was, he never shot 57% from the field. "

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58734

"however, maybe if he were forced into it by being "the man," McHale would have learned how to be an effective #1 option and creator for others. so that's another reason you go with him over Dirk. consider how Dirk, post-Nash, developed point forward abilities. perhaps McHale would too."

Yes these are quotes from message boards, but they clearly show that people share the same ideas I do (plus there aren't many articles out there on McHale as he played in the 80's).

The 40mpg shows he can play serious minutes (he played 37 mpg the next 2 years after while playing hurt too).
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:07 AM   #5575
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm genuinely excited to see who Bobbo takes with Shaq. I can't think of anyone in particular that he'd go for, other than the guy I think should have gone 20 picks ago.
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