Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-20-2008, 10:58 PM   #5526
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
i tore my knee up almost 2 years ago and still have pain and cant play sports, so i have been painstakingly researching microfracture and other solutions.

its not considered a fix for poor knee construction that causes cartilage deterioration. it is good for otherwise healthy knees that sustained a traumatic injury and have good construction, joint spacing, etc.

ive done hours of research on this. im not a doctor. ive talked to a few doctors.
I understand its not a fix for poor knee construction. I understand that the problems will one day come back. I never said otherwise in my post. What I did say was that it took 26 years for Penny's cartilidge to wear down the first time. If it could be repaired using today's microfracture procedures then maybe it'd take another 5-10 years for it to wear down again. Neither of us really have any clue.

Also while you may have researched microfracture surgery a lot, I don't think you've researched the knee condition that Penny had. KLJ said that the Magic doctors misdiagnosed his condition and didn't discover it until age 26. This obviously wasn't good for him. Since I'll know about his condition right away when I get him on his 24th birthday(about 2 1/4 years before they found out about it) theres a chance that it could be treated much better and maybe even cured.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. However, I don't need any miraculous recovery for me to be happy with my pick. If all of these factors I described can give me just 2 or 3 more years of "Prime Penny" then that'll make a solid 6 years with him playing like that(and many more with him as a decent role player). That'd be 6 years of me having imho the best 1-2 punch in this draft. Now will all these factors let me get 2 or 3 more years than Penny got in real life? Its a definite unknown, but I think the reward is worth the risk at pick #75.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 10:59 PM   #5527
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,791
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
No I won't. Take a look at my post above about Grant Hill. I went back and forth on who was better, and at the end of my post I admitted that I am very undecided. I am very willing to admit I'm wrong. Its very possible that you'll list 20 players and I'll end up saying "You're right there are 20...let me amend my statement to 25...Penny is a top 25 player when healthy."

I'm not hardheaded at all. I think I have proven time and time again that I'm willing to change my opinions, and I've already done it several times in this draft.
look, i dont care if his seasons were top 20, 25, 5, or 50. ya, he was great for that brief amount of time.

but yoooooouuuuuuuuuuu, keep ignoring my point. i could drag out a list of guys who had 1 or 2 spectacular years, then fell off dramatically but sustained a long career. why is penny rated above these guys? they would be rated much higher in this draft by getting injured immediately after their great year. i dont think thats fair.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:02 PM   #5528
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
my post was pretty immature, but so was yours. i mean, did u really think i would just ignore u? have i ever done that? have i ever backed down from an internet fight? cmon man, this is all i do. so, like in a multiple choice test, i like to tackle the easy ones first.

your post required a bit of thought and typing so i figured i hit it last.
Victor, here is what happened:


-I made a post

-You made a few posts after it without responding to it whatsoever

-I made another post in which the first sentence was "Does you ignoring the major point of my post mean you take back what you said?"

-You responded to 2 or 3 posts made after that second post of mine.


At that point, do you really blame me for thinking that you're ignoring my point? If you weren't ignoring it but were just "tackling the easy ones first" then thats fine, but I think you could see why I thought you were ignoring me. I certainly don't see how it was immature of me. If I came across as immature, then I apologize, but that was far from my intention.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:02 PM   #5529
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

How does "neither of us have a clue" defend your pick? You've said that like 20 times already.

We have a clue of what happened to him already. We have some clues that he had knee problems before his blowout. What we definitely have no clue about is can Penny stay healthy for an entire career. Because we do know for sure his career is capable of being wrecked because of injuries.

Its not on us to prove he will get hurt. We've seen it already.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:03 PM   #5530
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I really want it to be my pick right now, someone trade with me or 4 people in front of me go really fast.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:07 PM   #5531
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,791
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

assani, from now on, i will be sure to read the posts in the order they are posted, even if they may be very long and respond to posts in the order they are recieved.

striving for a better 2p2,
victor
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:08 PM   #5532
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
look, i dont care if his seasons were top 20, 25, 5, or 50. ya, he was great for that brief amount of time.

but yoooooouuuuuuuuuuu, keep ignoring my point. i could drag out a list of guys who had 1 or 2 spectacular years, then fell off dramatically but sustained a long career. why is penny rated above these guys? they would be rated much higher in this draft by getting injured immediately after their great year. i dont think thats fair.
I don't agree that you could drag out that list. I think your list would be of guys who:

Got injured and never got back to their pre-injury level. An example of this may be Wade or Arenas.

OR

Were never that great to begin with. Maybe they played on a bad team so they had good bulk numbers, but once they got to a good team their usage went way down. Imo these players didn't get any worse they just started getting the number of touches they deserved(less than earlier). I have quite a few examples of this but none of them have been drafted yet.

Basically I think you're way underrating Penny's combo of efficiency and bulk. Nobody does that if they're not legit. It simply can't happen because when you're a bulk scorer its too big of a sample size to be a fluke.

Players will very rarely come into the league at age 22 or younger, show a lot of potential and get better throughout their first season or two, peak at 23 or 24, have no injury, and then get significantly worse.

Obviously you can't name undrafted players, but maybe PM me a list of players that fit this description or wait until they're drafted to bring them up. I really can't think of anyone that fits this description.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:12 PM   #5533
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
They can't guard me! The Secret Service could-n't guard me!
My favorite thing about Assani's pick is the easter eggs. Round 2 Recap is comin' atcha, y'all. I might be shooting my wad, actually. I got 8 more rounds!
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:13 PM   #5534
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
How does "neither of us have a clue" defend your pick? You've said that like 20 times already.

We have a clue of what happened to him already. We have some clues that he had knee problems before his blowout. What we definitely have no clue about is can Penny stay healthy for an entire career. Because we do know for sure his career is capable of being wrecked because of injuries.

Its not on us to prove he will get hurt. We've seen it already.
Ok....

We know that Penny got hurt in real life.

We know that in our league Penny will have a better chance of staying healthy than he did in real life due to advances in microfracture surgery, knowing about his knee condition 2.25 years earlier, and a bunch of other things I've mentioned but won't go over again because we've discussed them already.

We don't know how much better his chances will be though. We can estimate here for sure. But our estimations are going to be pretty much total guesses and won't prove anything imo. Worst case scenario would be that those things don't help us much at all. Best case would be that those things prove to be huge and Penny plays 10+ healthy seasons. Most likely scenario is somewhere in the large gap in between those two extremese.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:14 PM   #5535
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm gonna go out for the night, so we may have to put this discussion on hold for now. I'll be back later though for sure to argue it more. Feel free to leave me a few(or even a bunch of) posts to respond too whenver I get back...
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:15 PM   #5536
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

vic is having an all-star performance in this thread. Nice work dude
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:16 PM   #5537
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,791
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

well, im gonna start combing the archives for old school players with knee problems. we has surgery advances now!
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:18 PM   #5538
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

God I had a sick one that I was banking on with my 5th or 6th rounder, now one of you bastards is gonna prob snatch him.

Arguing in this thread is so -ev it's ridiculous.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:19 PM   #5539
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

for the purposes of this draft, i think it goes against the spirit of this super-league to disclose future information to the players (same with allowing "medical advances", etc). and i'm one of the people who would benefit most from this.

adds a whole new level of hypotheticals which makes it exponentially harder to judge
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:21 PM   #5540
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Don't you think it's a problem though, with making the cavaat that a player who had serious injury issues might not have the same injury severely helps those who have had serious injuries. Why are they the 1 exception? I know if I'm drafting hill I'm going to get 5 years at extreme level and then injury issues most of the rest of the way, that's just part of drafting him. I don't think it's fair that advances were made to do certain things so now b/c I drafted him it's no big deal anymore. It should be a big deal. Obviously Assani you know what your getting into with Penny and I have no mallet of you drafting him but I don't think it's necessarily fair that we bring up advances in certain surgeries or some rediculous counter-measure to an extreme problem with a player. That's the problem, that's why he fell, don't think you can easily get out of it.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:22 PM   #5541
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
for the purposes of this draft, i think it goes against the spirit of this super-league to disclose future information to the players (same with allowing "medical advances", etc). and i'm one of the people who would benefit most from this.
yeah... I took Bird fully expecting everyone to discount the end of his career.
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:26 PM   #5542
.Alex.
Pooh-Bah
 
.Alex.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Playa del Carmen
Posts: 5,737
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Here's my write-up for the Jefferson pick. If a mod could edit it into my post, that would be great.

After failing to trade up, I am pleasantly surprised to see Big Al fall to me in this slot. Jefferson is coming off an 82 game season of 21/11 with a PER of 22.7, all at the age of 23. There aren't many 20/10 guys around, let alone left in the draft, and his array of low post moves will allow him to continue putting up similar numbers in the future. His low TS% is partially due to facing plenty of double teams while playing for a bad Minnesota team. Jefferson's defense and free throw shooting have gotten better each year and should at least stay where they are, if not improve further.

With this pick, I am hoping to recreate the succesful pairing of Kobe and a dominant big man, like Shaq and more recently, Bynum and Gasol. This permits me not to worry much about scoring in the later rounds, letting me focus on defense, passing, and open shooting, most likely starting with a defensive-minded center. I am confident this tandem will give me one of the highest powered offenses in the league.
.Alex. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:31 PM   #5543
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

A TS of .540 is not not low at all, particularly for a post player. Ewing, Hakeem, and Duncan were in the .550s... That is pretty sexy company imo.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:33 PM   #5544
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
A TS of .540 is not not low at all, particularly for a post player. Ewing, Hakeem, and Duncan were in the .550s... That is pretty sexy company imo.
McHale has a career TS% of .605 (with a lack of a long peak too), with years of .617, .623, .655, .656, .623

Ship the freakin surest 2 points in bball pls
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:39 PM   #5545
.Alex.
Pooh-Bah
 
.Alex.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Playa del Carmen
Posts: 5,737
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
A TS of .540 is not not low at all, particularly for a post player. Ewing, Hakeem, and Duncan were in the .550s... That is pretty sexy company imo.
To be fair, that includes their decline years. They were mostly a few tenths higher in their primes, though that's mitigated by the fact that Jefferson has been playing for crappy teams thus far and is still developing.
.Alex. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:39 PM   #5546
crzylgs
Pooh-Bah
 
crzylgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rejectin your sh0tz
Posts: 3,878
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
ty, if anyone else has any other info please add it.
They're getting a retro release this fall.

http://niketalk.yuku.com/topic/65475...CS.html?page=1
crzylgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:40 PM   #5547
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
McHale has a career TS% of .605 (with a lack of a long peak too), with years of .617, .623, .655, .656, .623

Ship the freakin surest 2 points in bball pls
Wrongo. Barkley is .612, with seasons of .661, .660, .665, and and .653. But then again he wasn't nearly as well rounded as McHale... oh wait.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:41 PM   #5548
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Wrongo. Barkley is .612, with seasons of .661, .660, .665, and and .653. But then again he wasn't nearly as well rounded as McHale... oh wait.
Ya when they still didn't have the 5 second rule, once they added it Barkley fell off drastically. (And the 5 second rule will be in this league too).

And Barkley isn't as well rounded as McHale, Barkley's defense blew. McHale has no weak spots in his game.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:41 PM   #5549
Franchise 60
deliciously angry
 
Franchise 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ferocious, isn't he?
Posts: 42,744
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Wrongo. Barkley is .612, with seasons of .661, .660, .665, and and .653. But then again he wasn't nearly as well rounded as McHale... oh wait.
Owned.
Franchise 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:42 PM   #5550
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by crzylgs View Post
They're getting a retro release this fall.

http://niketalk.yuku.com/topic/65475...CS.html?page=1
ruf**** already pmed me that but thanks anyway
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive