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Old 05-20-2008, 09:18 PM   #5476
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
other than my last sentence my post perfectly sums up why u think its a great pick.
Not at all. Here is what you said:

assani will have better drs so he wont have future complications. better rehab program so he will come back stronger. better timetable so he wont *** his leg up too early. and a better coach/motivator so he will lift weights, never eat mcdonalds and keep himself in tiptop shape.

Here is what I think:


I will have better doctors and better microfracture surgery available so he will certainly be a little bit better after the surgery. Will he be fully better after the surgery? I really don't know...probably not, but maybe so. Timetable is completely up to chance still. I don't think it will necessarily be better or worse. I don't think coaching has anything to do with this. I will also add that its a possibility that Penny freakishly injured his knee and that in our hypothetical league he will never need the surgery. How big of a possibility is this? I really have no clue, nor does anyone else. Any guess is pure and complete idle speculation imo.


Do you really not see the differences?
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:19 PM   #5477
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Because I'm talking to people, watching basketball, debating in this thread, and kicking my dog because the Knicks got the 6th pick.

I'm usually good with stuff like that.
My condolences on you being a Knicks fan.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:21 PM   #5478
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I really don't like when you have to use a lot of what ifs for players. What if I tought this player who plays no spit of D, D, then he'd be awesome. We can make all kinds of rediculous assumptions to make our team or player better than he actually is. I kinda put players near their actual value b/c it's impossible to garner every what if. For young players you have to account for some sort of injury issue, drop off issue but it should be determined by previous stats, position, size, etc.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:21 PM   #5479
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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What do you mean by super stars? Are all-nba players superstars? B/c there are a bunch of teams with 2 all-nba players, I believe you took the last guy with more than 1 All-nba though.
Eh, superstars is a vague word, so its probably best for me to just retract my statement.

What I meant by superstars is legit MVP candidate type of guys. Guys that are great on offense and defense. Guys that its not even a question deserve a max contract when theres is up.

But yea....silly debate because of the vagueness of superstars, so just ignore my ocmment.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:23 PM   #5480
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Because I'm talking to people, watching basketball, debating in this thread, and kicking my dog because the Knicks got the 6th pick.
Sweet. I need the Knicks to suck 2 more years (Jazz get their #1 in 2010).
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:25 PM   #5481
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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+1 regarding your edit.

I don't need Penny to be completely healthy for every year of his career. If he gives me 5 years then gets hurt in 2013(when microfracture surgery has progressed even more) and then comes back in 2014 at 75% that will be fine.

For those years that I do have him, I'm one of the only teams with two legit superstars. People are taking role players already, and rightfully so. How many teams have two legit superstars who are good on both ends of the floor though? For however many years Penny can give me, I'll have that. If I can win a championship or two in those years then it was worth it imo.
yup, thats why we're giving u sht. bc u way overestimate the chances.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:25 PM   #5482
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Originally Posted by SHARK DOCTOR View Post
Heres a message I sent to vixicator regarding the Redd Pick...I will censor out all the names I talk about...




I actually put in the exact number of "X"'s in place of those players named above..so if you can guess - give it a shot. (but not in this thread obviously)
Bye.

I don't know how many people I'm gonna have to ban to cut out this lame hinting and constant name dropping, but its obviously at least 2. This is almost worse than Bobbo becaust its attention whorish and clearly intended to flaunt the rule.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:26 PM   #5483
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
I really don't like when you have to use a lot of what ifs for players. What if I tought this player who plays no spit of D, D, then he'd be awesome. We can make all kinds of rediculous assumptions to make our team or player better than he actually is. I kinda put players near their actual value b/c it's impossible to garner every what if. For young players you have to account for some sort of injury issue, drop off issue but it should be determined by previous stats, position, size, etc.
I think its obvious that we're assuming the same skillsets. I don't think anyone except HSP has picked someone and then claimed that he'd teach him to play differently than he has in real life.

And I don't make any definitive assumptions(something you guys apparently aren't understanding here). I make assumptions that THERE IS A POSSIBILITY that he will be able to play more games in his prime than he did in real life. And I give several solid reasons why that possibility exists. Throughout it all though, I full admit that its only a possibility.


As I said I didn't want to take one of the injured guys. I didn't not want to take them because I thought they were bad value; I didn't want to take them because I didn't want to have to go through this and defend my pick. And I've tried to be very reasonable and fair in my defense of it(regarding injury proneness....I've been very assertive regarding his peak and imo rightfully so).
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:28 PM   #5484
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Before recently, everyone who had microfracture surgery was pretty much never the same player(with maybe very few exceptions).
Stockton, Kidd
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:32 PM   #5485
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
yup, thats why we're giving u sht. bc u way overestimate the chances.
You must not be reading my posts or something.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
How big of a possibility is this? I really have no clue, nor does anyone else. Any guess is pure and complete idle speculation imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I've always said "Maybe Penny will be healthy in this format because of better microfracture surgery techniques, him not being injury prone out of college, and his playing 3 full seasons in his first 6 years. Then again maybe he won't be. It is indeed a gamble, but I've provided some reasoning why it could work out."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
As I said, I have no clue if he'd stay healthy or not. Neither does anyone else. I outlined above a few reasons which support the viewpoint that he could stay healthy, but other than that I can't really debate it. Clearly he is a risk, but man the reward is high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I'll agree with you that there is A CHANCE that players like McHale/Penny will be helped by this format. However, I'm not going to say that either of them definitively wouldn't have had a similar career ark, as we simply don't know.

Never once in any of my posts do I estimate the chances that Penny stays healthy or recovers from microfracture surgery. All I every do is point out the reasons why he MAY stay healthy. I draw no conclusions from these reasons and I am very clear in saying that "I have no clue what the odds are." Seriously, where are you getting this from?
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:32 PM   #5486
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I've been very assertive regarding his peak and imo rightfully so).
he had a 1.5 year peak. wtf. why cant i find a bunch of dudes with similar very short awesome peaks and say, well, mebbe they woulda continued it bc of abc?
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:35 PM   #5487
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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he had a 1.5 year peak. wtf. why cant i find a bunch of dudes with similar very short awesome peaks and say, well, mebbe they woulda continued it bc of abc?
oh man i have some sick candidates for this!
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:39 PM   #5488
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Ho Grant went a little early but not like massively so.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:39 PM   #5489
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

chicagobullaments
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:42 PM   #5490
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

lapoker, pm pls.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:43 PM   #5491
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Sweet. I need the Knicks to suck 2 more years (Jazz get their #1 in 2010).
WTF why?
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:45 PM   #5492
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Bye.

I don't know how many people I'm gonna have to ban to cut out this lame hinting and constant name dropping, but its obviously at least 2. This is almost worse than Bobbo becaust its attention whorish and clearly intended to flaunt the rule.
WTF where's the calendar?
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:50 PM   #5493
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WTF where's the calendar?
On my mobile at the airport. I actually had tugger do the honors.

Tuq, please to edit in calendar pic to my post plskthx.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:52 PM   #5494
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

looking to move up PM for details.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:55 PM   #5495
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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WTF why?
Won't mention player traded, but aquired through Phoenix.

From RealGM.com:


2009 first round draft pick from New York
New York's own 2009 1st round pick to Utah via Phoenix (top 22 protected in 2009, and unprotected in the 2010 Draft). [New York - Phoenix, 1/5/2004 and then Phoenix - Utah, 2/19/2004]
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:57 PM   #5496
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Pick 75 (Penny) rehashed - I support this pick, and I think that the whole "microfracture surgery advanced" point has merit. Amare is a good example of a super athletic guy to make a seemingly full recovery, and there are players who've done the same after having this surgery on both knees. AFAIK that was unprecedented when Penny got hurt.

Vlade - I think it's a great pick for KC. At the time, there as Vlade, and a very large dropoff in big men who could score and play defense well. It may have been a slight reach as far as BPA is concerned, but I think it was necessary given the amount of time between picks for KC.

Redd - With Vlade gone, picking a big man here would have meant reaching quite far down the talent pool, so staying with offense makes sense. Contrary to what some think, there is still quite a few defensive specialists out there, but if you draft them now you'll be hampered on the offensive end.
I think picking a BPAish offensive weapon is fine, because you'll probably be able to get one of those guys given the amount of teams who are already set in that department.

Ho Grant - Reminds me of a Laimbeer with his consistency and longevity. He was a great post defender, pretty good help defender, and would never hurt you offensively. Sounds like a nice pairing with LBJ.

I don't see any reaches in the last few picks..
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:01 PM   #5497
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

assani,

when i said he wasn't as good as i remembered him, yes, i did think he was the next magic when i was a kid. then i looked at the stats and realized he wasn't anywhere close. MVP type age 24 season putting up 21.3/6.9/5.4 with a 24 PER. good if not great season but OMG good? i don't think so. every year there are a couple people with 24 PER MVP type seasons. comparing him to grant hill is bad imo because grant hill was even more amazing than that for a 5 year stretch.

grant hill's age 24 year he was 21.4/9/7.3 and that is in the middle of a sustained (albiet short) high-end peak. with penny you are talking about ONE YEAR before he immediately becomes a health risk and is never the same player after Shaq leaves and he gets hurt.

and kc is right about penny's conditioning. he has a lanky and frail frame that can't take a lot of abuse.

i'm not saying penny was never a great player, but he wasn't great for very long and his greatness wasn't magic omg good.

but, like i said, he had really sick shoes.

[IMG]http://www.kicksonfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/*********-penny-ii.jpg[/IMG]

everybody had them back in the day yo.
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:04 PM   #5498
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

They can't guard me! The Secret Service could-n't guard me!
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:04 PM   #5499
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Mano View Post
Won't mention player traded, but aquired through Phoenix.

From RealGM.com:


2009 first round draft pick from New York
New York's own 2009 1st round pick to Utah via Phoenix (top 22 protected in 2009, and unprotected in the 2010 Draft). [New York - Phoenix, 1/5/2004 and then Phoenix - Utah, 2/19/2004]
There goes Marbury screwing NY even after his contract is off the books. Mother****er.
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:05 PM   #5500
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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assani,

when i said he wasn't as good as i remembered him, yes, i did think he was the next magic when i was a kid. then i looked at the stats and realized he wasn't anywhere close. MVP type age 24 season putting up 21.3/6.9/5.4 with a 24 PER. good if not great season but OMG good? i don't think so. every year there are a couple people with 24 PER MVP type seasons. comparing him to grant hill is bad imo because grant hill was even more amazing than that for a 5 year stretch.

grant hill's age 24 year he was 21.4/9/7.3 and that is in the middle of a sustained (albiet short) high-end peak. with penny you are talking about ONE YEAR before he immediately becomes a health risk and is never the same player after Shaq leaves and he gets hurt.

and kc is right about penny's conditioning. he has a lanky and frail frame that can't take a lot of abuse.

i'm not saying penny was never a great player, but he wasn't great for very long and his greatness wasn't magic omg good.

but, like i said, he had really sick shoes.

[IMG]http://www.kicksonfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/*********-penny-ii.jpg[/IMG]

everybody had them back in the day yo.
those are some sick shoes, any idea where I can get them? I just tried ebay with no luck
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