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Old 05-20-2008, 08:12 PM   #5401
Assani Fisher
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
and u assume that he a)wont get hurt and b) will continue to perform at such a level. it seems he declined a bit from his stellar 97 to 98. 24.6per to 21.4per.
Where the **** do I assume he won't get hurt?

I've been EXTREMELY CLEAR in every single post that I've made that its a clear possibility that he will.

I see no reason why, if healthy, he would've suddenly dropped off.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:12 PM   #5402
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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bobbo's reign of terror has just ended i think, too optimistic to hope that he's ready already?
fyp
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:13 PM   #5403
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

should i change my screename to Abynum ?
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:14 PM   #5404
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

it's not just possible, it's all but guaranteed.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:14 PM   #5405
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

If I started a "Best NBA players before they got hurt" thread would everyone hate me?
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:14 PM   #5406
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i think u may have taken highstakespokers spot for dumbest. im not sure. i hope kc includes a tally in his writeup.
lols
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:15 PM   #5407
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

There were 3 players I looked at with my last pick. Obviously Penny was one. Horace was one of the others. Very good pick imo.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:15 PM   #5408
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

HORIZON - add this to the end of your post:

MY TEAM SO FAR:

HORACE GRANT
AND WHOEVER ELSE YOU HAVE
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:15 PM   #5409
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

glad Horace is getting some love. horizon also just listed his career numbers.. he had a pretty long career. His peak is pretty sick.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:15 PM   #5410
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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If this is what you meant all along by "helped by this format" then I'll agree with you that there is A CHANCE that players like McHale/Penny will be helped by this format. However, I'm not going to say that either of them definitively wouldn't have had a similar career ark, as we simply don't know.

I will admit that I misunderstood what you meant by "helped by this format" though.
Yes that is what I meant by being helped by this format, I thought it was pretty obv when I broke it down vs Drob ldo.

And McHale has the same chance to get hurt as Jordan/Shaq/Lebron/Kobe etc. do imo, McHale was ridiculously durable until he played on a broken foot.

So why can't Jordan get hurt just like McHale did, he was very wreckless too, especially in his early years.

Jordan (or anyone else) could mess up his career in this league, and we could be talking about him as one of those potential great players who got hurt and didn't last.

Last edited by EPiPeN11; 05-20-2008 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:16 PM   #5411
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

cuz then it's gayballs and impossible to analyze.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:16 PM   #5412
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Seriously. So gay balls. 25%? More like 85%. This league is pointless if it's all "well if he doesn't get hurt and he won't cuz I said so so grant hill is in the top 10 all time players and Shawn Kemp is in the HoF"
Are we talking about the same thing? By 25%, I mean the chances of Penny staying healthy and maintaining his level of performance, not of him getting injured.

And yeah, it's impossible to agree about these injured players, but there is just no way around it the way the rules are set up.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:16 PM   #5413
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Popinjay View Post
If I started a "Best NBA players before they got hurt" thread would everyone hate me?
Not if you exclude Kevin Mchale
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:17 PM   #5414
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

then we're on the same page. But I think it's much less that 25%. Even 15% is being generous.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:17 PM   #5415
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Taking a role player in the 2nd round seems a little crazy to me.
There are only so many shots to go around on these teams. Grant was a very good defender, a solid rebound, and an efficent 12-15 ppg scorer. Thats great for this format imo.

What you guys aren't realizing imo is that with "role players" in real life, many of them only score 4 or 5 points per game. In this draft, theres going to be a lot of role players who can score 10+ per game efficiently. So surround them with one or two bulk scorers and you're good to go.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:17 PM   #5416
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Popinjay View Post
If I started a "Best NBA players before they got hurt" thread would everyone hate me?
maybe, there's some really good ones out there. however, some of them got hurt before age 24
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:21 PM   #5417
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Because its such a grey area for sample size and likelyhood of injury (before initial injury) it makes it hard to make definitive statements of what a player will give long term.

For the purposes of this draft, I think we have to factor actual injury in as at least a long-term propensity toward injury, regardless of whether the individual player actually possessed a long-term propensity toward injury.

I think Penny was good value here.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:23 PM   #5418
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
Horace was the other guy I strongly considered. Nice pick.

with regards to Vlade (or anyone for that matter)


I'm not looking for "special", I'm looking for productivity. I'm looking to win ball games. Michael Redd is the epitome of a "special" shooter/scorer, yet is totally lacking in all other areas of his game. NOT just defense. He's a below average rebounder for his size. He's a below average passer. He's woeful on D.

F specialization.

Assani,

Hardaway was GREAT one yaer.. definitely not "oh my god" incredible though. You could have definitely gotten similar players, some with peaks very close to Penny's, without the busted knee (which WILL happen, btw.. do some research about it. Dude was a freakish athlete who failed to work out, really).
Yes Penny was "OMG incredible." Read some of the posts I've written about him. Those stats are insane. The series against the Heat was insane. I must not understand your definition of incredible then. A point guard scoring 21 points on 60+ TS% and being a good defender....please find those qualities in any other player ever because I'm just not seeing them.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:26 PM   #5419
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ok.. fine "oh my god" incredible. There are other "omg incredible" players out there then, or very close to it, who give you more than a couple years. Who work out. Who take care of themselves.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:26 PM   #5420
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

penny was more than incredible, if anyone saw him play you can attest to that.

I dont remember very well, but didnt penny have more hype when he camen into the league than grant hill ?
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:26 PM   #5421
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Seriously Assani, read the posts before you start getting all uppity. I explained this mother****ing post twice already.

CLIFFNOTES FOR ASSANI: Claiming he would be a top 20 player is overrating him, alright?
Your post listed no stats, listed no argument...basically listed nothing at all to negate Hardaway's prime years.

As I said, please find me any other PG ever who can play good defense and score in bulk with efficiency. Its the rarest of rare skillsets.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:27 PM   #5422
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

wow i think bobbo is about to take the steal of the draft.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:27 PM   #5423
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Your post listed no stats, listed no argument...basically listed nothing at all to negate Hardaway's prime years.

As I said, please find me any other PG ever who can play good defense and score in bulk with efficiency. Its the rarest of rare skillsets.
Stockton and Billupssssssssss. Both were better defenders and shooters than Penny too, holla.

But yes obv u are right (I said this when I drafted billups) and having a pg who can play great d/shoot elite (neither Penny did at elite, although he was an elite scorer) is the rarest and I only can count two in this entire 30 year draft (stockton and billups).
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:28 PM   #5424
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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As I said, please find me any other PG
most definitely not a PG, unless you consider Gil a PG too. I don't. meh whatever.

edit: nm has pretty balla assists #s while he was still good and wiki says he learned the position. Still, everywhere he's listed as a 2 or 3 because busted knee meant buh-bye PG
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:28 PM   #5425
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I don't get why everyone is bashing Hardaway. I don't like the pick because of the injuries but there's no denying that he was sick in his prime. he's very similar to Grant hill in that regard
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