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Old 05-20-2008, 06:55 PM   #5326
Steroid Boy
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

michael redd

lollool

i cant take anyone seriously who turns down an offer to play with LeBron and stay in milwaukee
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:56 PM   #5327
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Seems about where Redd should have gone, maybe bit later... is the main problem the pairing or...? Who can do same things but better (PM me obv). Magic can play center, right? Heh.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:56 PM   #5328
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think campone0 was asking if the second guy you listed (for the vomit pic) had actually been drafted.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:56 PM   #5329
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm talking about you mention Mr. Franchise. I will delete this post. He hasn't been taken yet has he. I think you meant Starbury.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:59 PM   #5330
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

This is one of the best threads in a long time. I love not having to participate in the draft but still getting to make fun of the picks.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:00 PM   #5331
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by D104 View Post
Yea, you're going to get it for the Redd pick. Simply for the fact that there are players out there that can do exactly what he does, only better.

D
actually theres really not. redd shoots .388 from 3, averages 4.5attempts/game. shoots .45 from the field. efg is .507, tsp is .562.

hes been very consistent since turning 24, 5 years of excellent numbers tho he only played 53 games one year.

theres really no one out there that can score as well as redd and has done it for so long.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:00 PM   #5332
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Redd is an excellent offensive player. Maybe I'm reading too much into the defensive metrics, but i've never seen numbers so low.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:01 PM   #5333
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I had a list of about ten, they all will go before I pick again, but they seemed like such a reach at this spot. Some also had injury/short season issues in the meat of the string of years we are drafting.

Redd was ranked 53 career PER, the highest available. I think later in the the draft it there will be plenty of of complimentary players to be had.

I had it down to 3 and I decided to go with the highest PER rating.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:02 PM   #5334
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i really dont get all the redd hate.

yall laugh and make one liners but no one makes any points. except capone, who made good points about his defense.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:03 PM   #5335
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i like the pick but laugh at redds decision to stay in milwaukee instead of playing w/ LBJ
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:03 PM   #5336
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Steroid Boy View Post
michael redd

lollool

i cant take anyone seriously who turns down an offer to play with LeBron and stay in milwaukee
funny you say this because I thought Redd was going in LeBron's team's 2nd round slot.

I too would like a PM on who the best picks would have been for Magic... I have some ideas but my vision is too biased against the 1980s and early 90s.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:04 PM   #5337
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm looking to move up. PM if interested - I will PM u an offer. I pick in 18 or so - its not a huge drop.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:07 PM   #5338
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Hey its not that bad a pick. Great offensive threat, zero D. You're kinda pigeonholed into picking up some defensive specialists later but thats fine I guess. You've got the main bulk of your offense sorted as long as you dont go two zeros in the paint on offense later.

Edit: Anyone got an up to date version of the spreadsheet from before (or any version), I might be trading my early 3rd pick.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:07 PM   #5339
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The problem I think the number of great scorers available is still much greater than the number of good bigmen left. There are so many guy who can play the 2/3 available and I mean a ton since in comparison to any other position it's easy to interchange (C/PF kinda can but you can't have 6-8 C on most teams and some SGs can play PG etc.). Yes Redd is an amazing shooter, but I can give you a laundry list of guys available who are slightly worse shooting but better at just about everything else.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:10 PM   #5340
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontRaisePlz View Post
I think Redd was one of the BPA, this just shows the downside of picking Magic Johnson top-5 in a reverse snake draft - as opposed to one of the elite centers.

there are some high risk athletes who could offer both offense and defense that might've been reaches, but would compliment Magic better IMO.
I think there are some non reaches that are better, but whatever. There's no problem in building around Magic. Is there any problem building around Jordan?
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:12 PM   #5341
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
The problem I think the number of great scorers available is still much greater than the number of good bigmen left. There are so many guy who can play the 2/3 available and I mean a ton since in comparison to any other position it's easy to interchange (C/PF kinda can but you can't have 6-8 C on most teams and some SGs can play PG etc.). Yes Redd is an amazing shooter, but I can give you a laundry list of guys available who are slightly worse shooting but better at just about everything else.
I think you're underating Redd as an offensive threat, he really is very good, but yeah like someone said, theres clearly something wrong in the head with a guy who would rather be a star in Milwaukee rather than having a shot at a championship with Lebron.

Ha, just remember when the Cavs couldn't get Redd that offseason they decided theyd be fine splurging their load on Donyell Marshall to be No.2 to Lebron, good times.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:12 PM   #5342
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

If you're looking for a scorer Redd is def one of the BPA. He's incredibly consistent as a shooter but the reason I passed on him v. Richmond was lack of versatility especially as a driver/scorer.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:12 PM   #5343
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I have no problems building around Magic but I don't think I go shooting guard with my 2nd pick unless he guards PG/SGs effectively. With Magic being so tall (I guess you can move him in defensively), I would worry about speedy teams.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:13 PM   #5344
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
I think you're underating Redd as an offensive threat, he really is very good, but yeah like someone said, theres clearly something wrong in the head with a guy who would rather be a star in Milwaukee rather than having a shot at a championship with Lebron.

Ha, just remember when the Cavs couldn't get Redd that offseason they decided theyd be fine splurging their load on Donyell Marshall to be No.2 to Lebron, good times.
Underrating, I said he was good. But I would take a small concession on shooting b/c it's available to take a player who did a bunch of other things. Scoring is the most readily available thing in this draft.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:13 PM   #5345
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by D104 View Post
Yea, you're going to get it for the Redd pick. Simply for the fact that there are players out there that can do exactly what he does, only better.

D
Ridiculous.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:14 PM   #5346
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Who are the great/good big men (I mean pure Centers btw) left? Guys that have a chance against Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, etc? I'm either missing someone or there isn't one there.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:15 PM   #5347
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
I think you're underating Redd as an offensive threat, he really is very good, but yeah like someone said, theres clearly something wrong in the head with a guy who would rather be a star in Milwaukee rather than having a shot at a championship with Lebron.

Ha, just remember when the Cavs couldn't get Redd that offseason they decided theyd be fine splurging their load on Donyell Marshall to be No.2 to Lebron, good times.
WTF? They offered huge contracts to Ray Allen/Redd and they both turned them down, then they signed Larry Hughes to a huge contract as their no.2 to Lebron....
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:17 PM   #5348
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Chris Daddy Cool View Post
man, penny had the sickest sneakers.

but glossing over his stats his peak was just way too short and actually wasn't as good as i remembered.
You're definitely going to have to explain this statement. Unless you remembered him being better than Jordan, it just doesn't make sense to me. 21.7/7.1/4.3/2.0 with 60+% TS and very good defense is an insane peak.

To give you some examples:

Grant Hill played 13 seasons including 6 before his major injury(and he appeared to be very healthy in 04-05 before unfortunately getting hurt yet again). Only once did he put up more points. Only once did he ever put up more assists. He put up more rebounds in most of his years. He never close in steals. He never came close in efficiency.

Scottie Pippen played 17 seasons. Only once did he put up more points. He never put up more assists. He put up more rebounds most years. He put up more steals in 5 out of his 17 years(keep in mind many considered Scottie the premire wing defender of his time). He never came remotely close to Hardaway's efficiency.

Clyde Drexler played 15 seasons. In only 5 of them did he put up more points. He once put up more assists. He usually put up more rebounds. He put up more steals 5 times. He never came remotely close to the efficiency numbers.


I could go on and on. And keep in mind I'm cherry picking the best years of these players- they didn't put up all these stats in the same year. Hardaway did it all. And the most impressive thing by far was his efficiency.

If he wanted to be, Hardaway could've been a 30 point per game guy imo. One of the most impressive performances ever imo was something I hinted at in my draft pick analysis- his series in 1997 against the Miami Heat. The Heat were the best defensive team in the league regarding points per 100 possessions. Not only that but they played at one of the slowest paces in the league, so it was tough to put up huge numbers against them.

The Heat were a 61 win team and the Magic had barely snuck into the playoffs. The Heat went up 2-0 winning the first two games by a combined 52 points. Then Hardaway took over....

In Game 3 he scored 42 of his team's 88 points. He was 16/30 from the floor and 9/10 from the foul line. The other 4 starters were a combined 3/16 from the floor and didn't get to the foul line once. Hardaway added 8 rebounds, 2 assists, and 2 steals as well. Oh....and despite being literally the only offensive option on the floor and the primary ball handler, he only had one turnover all game.

In Game 4 he scored 41 of his team's 99 points. He went 12/23 from the floor including 4/8 from 3 and 13/16 from the line. He added 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals, and 3 blocks as well! Oh yea....and one lonely turnover. Keep in mind this is all against the best defensive team in the league.

In Game 5 he "only" put up 33/10/6/1/2(and 2 turnovers) and his team fell short to the heavily favored Heat.

I don't want to break the rules so I won't list the Magic roster that year, but lets just say that Hardaway really didn't have much help at all.



Now I fully realize that this was a 3 game sample size and doesn't mean a ton overall. However, you don't put up games like those if you're not a special, special player imo.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:17 PM   #5349
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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WTF? They offered huge contracts to Ray Allen/Redd and they both turned them down, then they signed Larry Hughes to a huge contract as their no.2 to Lebron....
Ok so both Donyell Marshall and Larry Hughes were hilarious.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:18 PM   #5350
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Ha, just remember when the Cavs couldn't get Redd that offseason they decided theyd be fine splurging their load on Donyell Marshall to be No.2 to Lebron, good times.
umm, no. they made xxxxx the 2. but ya, they gave xxxx a gang of cash. and xxxx too. and xxxx.

paxson really fcked the cavs over. my personal favorite move was to trade a number1 pick for yuri welsh done the stretch of lebrons second year while trying to make the playoffs. welsh proceeded to shoot .235. so the cavs traded him for a second round pick

Last edited by Victor; 05-20-2008 at 07:27 PM. Reason: sorry im leavin welsh
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