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Old 05-20-2008, 06:06 PM   #5301
Popinjay
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

after this is all done are you guys going to run simuls dungeons and dragons style? roll a 20 side die to see if penny recovers well from surgery... 12 sided die to see who gets injured when...

i love this thread and concept but it is getting kind of lol with all this speculation
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:07 PM   #5302
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I don't hate the Penny pick, but I do find it interesting that Assani was meh on my selection of Robertson because of his "short six year peak" and then he selects a guy in Hardaway who had a much shorter peak.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:15 PM   #5303
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Nobody ever said he IS a top 20 player for the last 30 seasons. IF he was never injured AND he maintained the level of performance of his first few years, he probably would have been regarded in that category. I was just responding to the "people overrate how good Penny was before the injury" statement - he was very good, and you of all people should agree that this format makes him a good value at #75.
I think that saying "If healthy hes imo a top 20 player in this entire draft," is overrating Penny Hardaway based on one great season, one very good season, and some decent seasons where he missed a bunch of games.

Take a look at the top 20, its kinda stacked for claims like this to be made.

And as Assani stated in his OP, we don't know if he'll get injured. But I can say with a lot more certainty that he will get hurt then anyone can regarding him not getting hurt. The reason? Because from 25 on he was a mess.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:20 PM   #5304
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

IMO:

You can evaluate the draft in 2 ways: long-term prognosis and 1-year prognosis. Oft-injured players can give you a big boost to your 1-year chance of winning but be a liability in terms of the long-term viability of your franchise. Take Kevin McHale for example - he sucks at everything, but is especially likely to be injured, so he hurts both your 1-year chance and your franchise. Most players have a certain tradeoff instead of purely negative value, like McHale.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:21 PM   #5305
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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getting 3rd and 10th in MVP voting for two seasons doesn't make you a top 20 player of the past 30 seasons.
well, that's probably why he went 75th and not 20th
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:24 PM   #5306
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by cowboy2579 View Post
IMO:

You can evaluate the draft in 2 ways: long-term prognosis and 1-year prognosis. Oft-injured players can give you a big boost to your 1-year chance of winning but be a liability in terms of the long-term viability of your franchise. Take Kevin McHale for example - he sucks at everything, but is especially likely to be injured, so he hurts both your 1-year chance and your franchise. Most players have a certain tradeoff instead of purely negative value, like McHale.
+1
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:25 PM   #5307
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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well, that's probably why he went 75th and not 20th
I don't think you are getting my point. Assani picks Penny, then says he is a huge steal and is a top 20 player when healthy. Then he argues why he may stay healthy. So he is pretty much arguing that Penny very well could be a top 20 player in this format. I am arguing that even if he does stay healthy, there isn't enough evidence to claim he is a top 20 player when healthy.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:27 PM   #5308
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I am arguing that even if he does stay healthy, there isn't enough evidence to claim he is a top 20 player when healthy
using assanis argument, bynum is a great pick too.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:27 PM   #5309
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Old 05-20-2008, 06:29 PM   #5310
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
I don't think you are getting my point. Assani picks Penny, then says he is a huge steal and is a top 20 player when healthy. Then he argues why he may stay healthy. So he is pretty much arguing that Penny very well could be a top 20 player in this format. I am arguing that even if he does stay healthy, there isn't enough evidence to claim he is a top 20 player when healthy.
Nah, I did get your point. Whether or not he stays healthy is obv a huge question (and I think top 20 might be stretching it, but I see Assani's point)-- but it's also definitely possible. And it's not like he, say, made a huge long stretch of assumptions to justify drafting someone many rounds earlier than most expected him to go.

And speaking of that, I discovered that a fun little exercise is to try to project HSP's draft picks in order to give him the most dysfunctional team imaginable. Try it! It's fun!
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:31 PM   #5311
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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using assanis argument, bynum is a great pick too.
2.5 years playing at an elite level is a little more compelling than .25 years.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:38 PM   #5312
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

This draft would be interesting if you got to pick a player and get their clone at their peak (forever), who is incapable of being injured (make another clone obv), and see how that changes things. Obv you'd have to redraft entirely on this rule but at least there is no grey area.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:41 PM   #5313
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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This draft would be interesting if you got to pick a player and get their clone at their peak (forever), who is incapable of being injured (make another clone obv), and see how that changes things. Obv you'd have to redraft entirely on this rule but at least there is no grey area.
I guess we could start a draft like that after this is done but we're only what 1/4th done. Some guys had some sick ass peaks. Moncrief, Hill, Penny woudl definitely go significantly higher.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:43 PM   #5314
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I guess we could start a draft like that after this is done but we're only what 1/4th done. Some guys had some sick ass peaks. Moncrief, Hill, Penny woudl definitely go significantly higher.
Should just do an NFL draft of post-1980 indestructable clone armies imo in a few months, heh
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:46 PM   #5315
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I draft Michael Redd......start the hate.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:48 PM   #5316
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I draft Michael Redd......start the hate.


still not that bad though - I just wanted to add this pic.

I guess I shouldve done it for the Bynum or Francis picks.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:48 PM   #5317
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Should just do an NFL draft of post-1980 indestructable clone armies imo in a few months, heh
NFL, MLB and other sports are tougher b/c there are so many more players than the NBA. We would need a time limit, also grading defensive players and lineman make the game a ton harder to judge.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:50 PM   #5318
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Redd was the main other guy I was back and forthing with Richmond. Nice pick IMO.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:50 PM   #5319
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I draft Michael Redd......start the hate.
You have Magic and Redd, two great offensive players but pretty horrible D imo. Redd's defensive ratings are attricious. OFfensively he's pretty damn efficient for a guard but the rest of his game is weak, I think there are better all around guards available then another pure scorer. This is going to hurt when you again don't pick for a while. Defensively you have a lot of work to do.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:51 PM   #5320
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

pretty good pick. redd is a great shooter and awesome scorer.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:52 PM   #5321
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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still not that bad though - I just wanted to add this pic.

I guess I shouldve done it for the Bynum or Francis picks.
Was your 2nd guy picked or did I miss that.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:52 PM   #5322
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

hey Ruffneck - edit your Redd post by adding this to the bottom while you still have time...

MY TEAM SO FAR:

MAGIC
REDD
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:53 PM   #5323
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yea, you're going to get it for the Redd pick. Simply for the fact that there are players out there that can do exactly what he does, only better.

D
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:54 PM   #5324
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Redd was one of the BPA, this just shows the downside of picking Magic Johnson top-5 in a reverse snake draft - as opposed to one of the elite centers.

there are some high risk athletes who could offer both offense and defense that might've been reaches, but would compliment Magic better IMO.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:54 PM   #5325
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Was your 2nd guy picked or did I miss that.
No - I wasnt targeting Redd...I just dont like the pick all that much...especially pairing him with Magic (doesnt really make the most sense imo)

I dont think its turrible...but if i were him I wouldve targeted another type of player..thats all.
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