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Old 05-20-2008, 02:30 AM   #5076
Seadood228
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by flyingmoose View Post
FWIW guys, I know Jermaine wasn't the most efficient 20/10 big man left, but all the bigs I had in mind along with him were revolving doors on defense and had never played on winning teams. I wanted his shot blocking and defensive rebounding, both of which he excels at.
I don't think people are hating on your pick nearly as much as you think. In my opinion, it's more a reflection of your first pick. It's really hard to find a big man that is a defensive stalwart, shoots efficiently, AND scores at a relatively high volume. JO at least has two of the three.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:32 AM   #5077
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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What?? This is nonsense, most big men who block shots and rebound well don't shoot 3s. This is like saying you don't like Chris Mullin because he couldn't defend Shaq in the post.

And the fact that he had an aging reggie doesn't mean his team was efficient offensively. The bottom line is that he led his team in scoring with a consistently higher than team-average efficiency.

JO in 02-03 TS% .539
Pacers TS% .521

JO in 03-04 TS% .489
Pacers TS% .500

JO in 04-05 TS% .520
Pacers TS% .534


So in all reality he was not consistently higher when we look at a more clear way of judging efficiency. This is made even worse when he was supposed to be one of the best offensive options on the team. It's rare that a good offensive player is worse than team average when it comes to efficiency, as he's supposed to be better than his teammates are.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:37 AM   #5078
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm pretty "meh" on this pick. Great defense, inefficient on offense despite not having a high volue, only 6 years peak.
I can see your point and the short peak is what kinda made me meh about it also. Honestly, I was looking at a lot of the points that went (Billups, Paker, Hardaway, KJ) in the hope that one would be around for me. Once they all went I was praying Mullin would fall to me but he got snapped up a few picks before me.

I had it between Robertson and two other players who have yet to go and I really couldn't decide. I like the fact that Robetson can provide strong defense in the backcourt especially with so many other teams out there building up a strong backcourt early. I felt like Robertson gives me good defense and the ability to lock down the opposing teams best perimeter player while not being a total negative on offense.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:47 AM   #5079
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Sorry to hijack this Kevin McHale thread, but it's nice to see a DePaul guy on the board.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:50 AM   #5080
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Sorry to hijack this Kevin McHale thread, but it's nice to see a DePaul guy on the board.


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Old 05-20-2008, 02:56 AM   #5081
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'd like to think I have an ingenious pick to make if I had either Kobe or MJ but we'll see.
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Old 05-20-2008, 03:20 AM   #5082
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Agreed completely. Mullin made the Peja pick look very bad.
yeah I was thinking the same thing at the time

Now I wish I'd entered this thing, I didn't think I knew enough about basketball to participate, but I feel I could be pretty competent
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Old 05-20-2008, 03:29 AM   #5083
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

since i've been gone:
I was hoping to get Cummings with my next pick.
Alvin Robertson and Mullin are very good picks as well.
Boozer is ok, but bad with Dirk for aforementioned reasons. His injury problems are worrysome, and his skill set isn't exactly dominant or overpowering.
Not a fan of JON or Starbury.
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Old 05-20-2008, 03:35 AM   #5084
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I don't know what you guys are talking about regarding judging these teams, but this is incorrect. I instructed everyone to draft teams as if they were starting a franchise to play in a league with today's NBA rules. Today's NBA rules means 82 games season.
In terms off actual judging and competition, just look at the Post-draft ideas thread, we are not going to have an 82-game regular season as that would be grossly impractical, instead it will basically just be like World Cup with eight groups of five teams each, a round robin to get down to 16 temas, and then best-of-seven series. So basically a four-game "regular season".
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Old 05-20-2008, 03:42 AM   #5085
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

nozecandy is winning this thread

I would love to see the Starburry chat last for as long as Mchale vs the world, please make this happen HSP
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:13 AM   #5086
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Omg. Someone finally picks mullin. I have no idea how he fell so far. He was an original dream teamer and the best of the run tmc gang. Amazing shooter/scorer who could create his own shot. How did Peja get picked before him? He was also very crafty and intelligent on the court and made the best of his physical abilities.

re: his defense his main weakness was a lack of foot speed but he made up for it by being smart and also had quick hands (he got a bunch of steals). I'd like to say he was at least decent though I don't know what the state say.

Anyways awesome pick. <3 mullin.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:23 AM   #5087
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm going to hit the sack in about 20 minutes. I'm not sure if it makes sense to PM someone my pick, since it's not looking like Alex will get his in this evening. Anyone object?
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:32 AM   #5088
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm going to hit the sack in about 20 minutes. I'm not sure if it makes sense to PM someone my pick, since it's not looking like Alex will get his in this evening. Anyone object?
I will be up for several hours, you can PM me your stuff if you want.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:34 AM   #5089
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think if you pm your pick, it should be to someone not in the draft, or at least not picking soon. although if it is only one guy none of that matters
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:37 AM   #5090
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think if you pm your pick, it should be to someone not in the draft, or at least not picking soon. although if it is only one guy none of that matters
That's why I volunteered.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:38 AM   #5091
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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question about Sid...isnt he ineligable?...he was drafted in 79 and played in the 1979-1980 season.

I thought it was 1980 and above?
No, if their rookie year was 79-80 then they are eligible. Otherwise Magic and Bird wouldn't have been eligible.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:39 AM   #5092
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Did you even see Moncrief play? And if so, how much? Just wondering.
Moncrief's prime ended when I was 4 years old. What do you think?
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:43 AM   #5093
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Originally Posted by ZBTHorton View Post
That's why I volunteered.
indeed. posted before I saw your response. browsing on my iPod is oh so slow
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:47 AM   #5094
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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seriously Assani can you fix your coach/player bomb post the hypocrisy is tilting me hard
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assani,

tsk tsk. edit plz

Maybe I've done a bad job of explaining this. I dunno because I feel like I've said it at lesat 5 times but people don't seem to get it.


It is ok to list a players name if you are making a point and need to list the name in order to make your point.

It is not ok to list a player(or hint at him in any possible way including his position/race/skillset/etc.) when you are trying to say that they should've been drafted, should be drafted soon, or would be a good fit being drafted by a certain team or at a certain pick.


Example:

-Before the Chris Mullin pick it would've been very much against the rules to say "I don't like the Peja pick because theres another guy who does what Peja does better still available imo."

-Before the Chris Mullin pick if you were in an argument about the quality of talent that Tim Hardaway had on his teams it would've been ok to list Chris Mullin(although you shouldn't comment on exactly how talented you think he is).


The reasons for this are simple. We all know the popular NBA players. Nobody here has never heard of Chris Mullin. However, we don't all have the same thoughts on the players. Therefore its ok to name the players before they are drafted. It is not ok to say when you think they should be drafted, what you think of their skillset, describe or compare their skillset, or make any post where the main focus is on an undrafted player.


If anyone still doesn't understand this then please let me know.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:53 AM   #5095
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
KG is obv better than Barkley/Malone in this format, and is obv the closest to McHale. However I would still take McHale over KG.

KG has gotten overrated over the years (omg i'm a boston homer and saying this, and note i've said this in other theards BEFORE this draft).

Both his defense and offense are overrated. His defense is very good don't get me wrong, but his 1v1 man to man defense is not elite at all. He is an elite help defender (helping out on other peoples mans like Ben Wallace) but he cannot guard most elite players in the post.

And his offense is overrated also. I don't agree that much with the tnt guys, but they are right when they say KG can never go for 40 points etc. He just can't dominate, he can't take/score consistantly easy buckets in the post. He always takes fallaway jump shots after posting up his man, he doesn't have the stength or post moves like McHale and for some reason cannot blow buy a guy like (example zomg Amare) can.

His jump shot is very good, if not great, but he is just not a great post player at all. He can't create his own shot 1v1 consistantly at a top 5 elite level like someone like McHale could.

ZOMG i'm a Boston homer and saying KG is overrated. Oh wait...i'm not a Boston homer.

Edit: Shouldn't say never for KG going for 40+ just veryyyyyyyyy rarley
There was a stat mentioned here a few weeks ago where KG held the guy he was guarding to something lik 39% FG shooting this year. Do you still maintain that he doesn't play good one-on-one defense?

KG is 8th in Defensive Rating among active players and 2nd in Defensive Win Shares behind only Tim Duncan.

KG has twice led the league in PER and has the 4th highest PER among all active players behind only Shaq, Lebron, and Duncan.

Moreover hes led the league in rebounding for 4 straight years before this year.

And before this year KG had never missed more than 6 games in a season.

KG is not overrated. He ranks highly in nearly every single metric. One of the more complete players ever.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:54 AM   #5096
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I still think Bynum is by far the worst pick in this draft....yes - that means worse than Starbury...I dont like Steph - but he did have some really good seasons early on....and not just half of a good season like Bynum. And to be honest - Bynum, though he has a lot of potential....he hasnt really even done anything really that remarkable in that one Half-season he played well. He played solid - showed glimpses of potential - but thats it...if he had at least finished off the season maybe we could have a better idea of what to expect from him...but half of a decent season is nothing to drool over.
A while ago there was a thread where we all ranked our top 50 current NBA players. Bynum was very high on all of our lists. This was pre-injury, but I think it shows his potential.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:55 AM   #5097
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by snowden719 View Post
Also, while Jack touched on this briefly while talking about JO and Reggie Miller, it's really unfair to compare a big man who shoots exclusively 2's to the a whole team which has a lot of three point shots taken as for example about a 5th of the 03-04 Pacers' shots were 3's and they made them at .350 clip.
Whomever compared JON's FG% to his teamates in order to make JON look good is wrong imo. Do it with eFG% or TS% and you'll see why.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:57 AM   #5098
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

the problem is that the names almost always carry implied meaning, like if you were to have said, "the 04 lakers were one of the best teams ever because they had Kobe, shaq, Malone and payton." it implies skill and that they are "good" in at least some sense. maybe I'm nitting it up here, but the grey area is tough IMO
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:05 AM   #5099
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I have been wanting to bring up a point about McHale, but I need to have my pick out there first.

Anyhow, I have PMed ZBT the pick.

[edit] At this point I have no backup if alex picks my guy, so apologies in advance if that slows the draft down.

[edit2]Also wanted to add my HSP announcement that my pick is going to absolutely suck, it will probably be the biggest reach in the draft thus far.

Last edited by Seadood228; 05-20-2008 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:13 AM   #5100
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A while ago there was a thread where we all ranked our top 50 current NBA players. Bynum was very high on all of our lists. This was pre-injury, but I think it shows his potential.
yes - I remember that thread very well...but I think this draft is a lil different when considering we're drafting players from 1980 to the present time...I guess its all perspective/opinion.
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