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Old 05-19-2008, 10:34 PM   #4801
HighStakesPro
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Paul Pierce has better numbers than Sid, and he can shoot the three. No slouch on the defensive end either..
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:34 PM   #4802
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

moses, chuck, drj, mcadoo, cheeks, toney, bobby jones.

boom.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:35 PM   #4803
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Shaq>Hakeem
Kobe>Pippen
Malone=Barkley


And then theres Gary Payton too.
This.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:36 PM   #4804
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
Paul Pierce has better numbers than Sid, and he can shoot the three. No slouch on the defensive end either..
PP was obviously not even close to Sid defensively. Sid was 5 time all-nba and 5 time all-nba D and 2 time DPOY. PP is 3 time all-nba and 0 time all-D. Better #s maybe but not better peak.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:47 PM   #4805
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Guys like Grant Hill and Larry Nance didn't offer any more prime years than Sid, and imo Sid's prime years were as good as all but maybe 10 or 15 players in the entire draft:

Age 24
19.8 points on 60.1 TS%
6.7 rebounds
4.8 assists
1.7 steals
0.3 blocks
All NBA 2nd Team
All Defensive 2nd Team
All Star
7th in MVP voting
4th in Offensive Rating
5th in win shares

Age 25
22.7 points on 60.2% TS%
5.8 rebounds
3.9 assists
1.5 steals
0.3 blocks
All NBA First Team
All Defensive First Team
Defensive Player of the Year
All Star
4th in MVP Voting
4th in win shares
3rd in Offensive Rating

Age 26
20.9 points on 59.1 TS%
6.7 rebounds
4.5 assists
1.4 steals
0.3 blocks
All NBA 2nd Team
All Defensive 1st Team
Defensive Player of the Year
All Star
8th in MVP voting
3rd in Win Shares
9th in Offensive Rating

Age 27
21.7 points on 56.5 TS%
5.4 rebounds
5.2 assists
1.6 steals
0.5 blocks
All NBA 2nd Team
All Defensive 1st Team
All Star
8th in MVP Voting
8th in Win Shares

Age 28
20.2 points on 60.4 TS%
4.6 rebounds
4.9 assists
1.4 steals
0.2 blocks
All NBA 2nd Team
All Defensive 1st Team
All Star
7th in MVP Voting
8th in Win Shares
2nd in Offensive Rating




Sidney Moncrief is the only non-center to ever win DPOY more than once.

Sidney Moncrief is 6th all time in Offensive Rating.

"When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it." -Michael Jordan

"His mental toughness is about as strong as anyone I've ever been around. And I've known a lot of players" -Don Nelson

"The NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award was seemingly created just for him" -Nba.com

"The best all around guard in basketball today." - Don Nelson


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueWFDhfD1BM
With Hill and Nance, it's possible that their injuries would be less severe in our simulation. Moncrief's kneecaps were too high, causing inevitable cartiledge damage. A doctor predicted that he would only be able to play two years in the NBA. His career represents about the max you could get out of him, health-wise. I do agree that he was a great player during his prime, and was a very good pick.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:48 PM   #4806
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Still looking to move up. PM if interested.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:11 PM   #4807
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Not sure why you quoted my post, maybe I had the only semi-negative comment. I think he was great for 5 years, like one of the best players in the league, thats a helluva peak. His production is cut in half immediately after, thats all. Yeah, its def good value in late 2nd round though.
Yeah wasn't directing it towards you really.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:16 PM   #4808
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Paul Pierce has better numbers than Sid, and he can shoot the three. No slouch on the defensive end either..
Paul Pierce is an above average defender; Sidney Moncrief is very arguably the best wing defender of all time. Theres a huge huge difference there, and defense is half of the game. This would be like comparing Michael Jordan's offense to Chauncey Billup's offense imo(not a perfect comparison, but I needed to pick someone who was already drafted to not break the rules).

Offensively, Moncrief was significantly more efficient and only scored 4 or 5 points less per game. Moncrief had more assist, Pierce had more rebounds.

Moncrief's peak > Pierce's peak imo and I don't think its all that close. A better question would be to just ask who was better on offense because when you introduce defense it simply isn't close.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:18 PM   #4809
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
With Hill and Nance, it's possible that their injuries would be less severe in our simulation. Moncrief's kneecaps were too high, causing inevitable cartiledge damage. A doctor predicted that he would only be able to play two years in the NBA. His career represents about the max you could get out of him, health-wise. I do agree that he was a great player during his prime, and was a very good pick.
Moncrief is one of the few guys I might buy the "with today's medical advances his career would have been greatly extended" argument. The guy was in insanely good shape, before this was stressed, and this was before they could just "scope" your knees. Basically played with chronic pain, but was tough enough to handle it.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:30 PM   #4810
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Moncrief is one of the few guys I might buy the "with today's medical advances his career would have been greatly extended" argument. The guy was in insanely good shape, before this was stressed, and this was before they could just "scope" your knees. Basically played with chronic pain, but was tough enough to handle it.
there's also many new techniques in cartilage replacement, and we forget that this is 25 years later. i really didn't want to open that can of worms though, i'm happy with 5 years and didn't want his worth as a player being judged on whether or not modern medicine can help him.

Last edited by KLJ; 05-19-2008 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:36 PM   #4811
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Not sure I understand this. Yes we have 30 years worth of players, but we also have 40 teams. Moreover we don't have teams that are rebuilding(Bobcats) or teams that suck(Knicks) to make it more top heavy. Don't this factors cancel out?

This is like the third time I've posted this now, but nobody has really addressed it.
the reason is that we're sampling all of these players in their peak. this alone means that the strength/athleticism is going to go through the roof (and the players that lack this are going to be hurt that much more). i don't think you realize the absolute wealth of talent in the player pool.

i wouldn't be surprised if there are 150+ eligible all-stars, and for every team to have 3-4 in their physical prime? crazy scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise 60 View Post
Epipen actually. IIRC the guy didn't make the recommended pick though (+1 for him).
cmon guys, its either ePippen or ePeen
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:37 PM   #4812
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
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Why will teams in this league have more offensive weapons than in real life? There are no teams in this league with two superstars like Kobe/Shaq or Stockton/Malone or MJ/Pippen, but that happens often in real life.
I can't drop names, but the point is that teams with superstars like Stockton/Malone frequently have a mediocre third option and then nothing, besides on some all time great teams.

I think it's pretty easy to imagine a team in this draft having at least one stud offensive player (say MJ or Magic or Larry etc) and another good offensive player (can't name names but obv there are a lot of guys out there with 20+ pt seasons) or a team with two very good/great offensive players (like say TMac and Parker or Scottie and KJ or Amare and Price etc).

On top of that, only all time great teams can get two superstars and then get a deep lineup around them. All teams in this draft will have 3rd and 4th options that were 2nd options on their teams. Guys off the bench that are solid starters and borderline all stars. It just really hurts more to have a guy like Peja out there, moreso than it helps to have a guy like Chauncy, imo.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:41 PM   #4813
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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the reason is that we're sampling all of these players in their peak. this alone means that the strength/athleticism is going to go through the roof (and the players that lack this are going to be hurt that much more). i don't think you realize the absolute wealth of talent in the player pool.

i wouldn't be surprised if there are 150+ eligible all-stars, and for every team to have 3-4 in their physical prime? crazy scenario



cmon guys, its either ePippen or ePeen
I did the calculations there are like 130 available guys with 1+ all-star appearances. Additionally there are some defensive specialists, so you have 130+30 or so specialists for 160 top level players so about 4 on each team.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:41 PM   #4814
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

DTEMP ONE TIME
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:42 PM   #4815
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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DTEMP ONE TIME
+1
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:43 PM   #4816
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Is seadood the only one who knows flyingmoose's pick?

edit: nm hes on.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:44 PM   #4817
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Sorry guys, I've been sick as hell and sleeping all day. I'll have my pick up shortly.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:44 PM   #4818
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

HOLLAAAA
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:45 PM   #4819
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ask and ye shall recieve
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:46 PM   #4820
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

It's gonna balance itself out. There are only so many shots to go around, so people will be adding plenty of defenders.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:48 PM   #4821
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

We might have 5 more picks tonight, the next 4 dudes after dtemp pick are all on here now!
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:50 PM   #4822
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

palpable
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:51 PM   #4823
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

YES

(as long as dtemp doesn't steal my pick)
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:52 PM   #4824
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Suspense sucks.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:55 PM   #4825
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Carlos Boozer

writeup coming

I feel like crap right now.

Sorry guys, no trades.
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