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Old 05-19-2008, 10:18 AM   #4351
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Excellent Buck Williams pick.
I concur.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:23 AM   #4352
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I've got to find time to read this whole thread. If it's half as entertaining as the last couple of pages, it will be worth it.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:36 AM   #4353
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

wow, huge discussion over timelimits because of me

to address some of the concerns people had:

a) I am always here 9-4 monday through friday, so will make picks in a timely fashion if during those hours
b) I am always away Saturday/Sunday, so will make my pick first thing Monday morning if my turn comes up over the weekend
c) If I will for some reason be gone more than Sat/Sun, then I will post in here first about it
d) If my turn is getting close on Friday, I will pm someone (who should I pm?) an ordered list of people to pick if my turn comes up before Sunday 10am. I will only do this with somewhere around 5-10 players...if more than that, then it'll have to wait until Monday morning, as you can't expect me to make huge lists of players to take and still be competitive
e) i misjudged friday...thought there were more than 6 people before me so didn't think my turn would come up until last night/this morning
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:38 AM   #4354
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Solid pick to solidify the back court but I'm not sure he would have been taken by the same pick 3rd round. Not a lot of flash on this team so far.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:39 AM   #4355
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Solid pick to solidify the back court but I'm not sure he would have been taken by the same pick 3rd round. Not a lot of flash on this team so far.
Front court?
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:40 AM   #4356
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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never seen him play but looking at numbers makes me think this was a reach unless he was truly studly on the defensive end.
disagree...sure i coulda picked someone who gets more like 20-25ppg instead of 18, but they wouldn't be near as efficient or as good of a rebounder and defender

and in this league, with these stacked teams, your 20-25ppg inefficient scorers won't do near that...u can't just put 5 inefficient 20ppg players on a team and expect them to all hit 20ppg

he's top 30 all-time in fg%, ts, win-shares, defensive win-shares, rebounding and is a 4-time all-defensive team selection

i think the stats show he's not a reach at all
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:41 AM   #4357
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Solid pick to solidify the back court but I'm not sure he would have been taken by the same pick 3rd round. Not a lot of flash on this team so far.
steroid boy already confirmed he was taking him if available in this round
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:41 AM   #4358
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Not why everyone thinks Buck is a great pick. He is an 18/12 player from 24-27, then has a sharp decline and drops all the way down to 8 ppg by age 32.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:42 AM   #4359
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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steroid boy already confirmed he was taking him if available in this round
He was in my top 5 players avaialble.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:44 AM   #4360
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Not why everyone thinks Buck is a great pick. He is an 18/12 player from 24-27, then has a sharp decline and drops all the way down to 8 ppg by age 32.
Because he's still efficient, good on D, and a good rebounder. Besides, people are picking guys who are pretty much done when they hit 30 anyway.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:47 AM   #4361
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
Not why everyone thinks Buck is a great pick. He is an 18/12 player from 24-27, then has a sharp decline and drops all the way down to 8 ppg by age 32.
he still gets close to 10rpg and his all-defense team selections were from 26-30, so even if his rpg/ppg dropped some, his defense only solidified and his efficiency also only improved (over 60% at 30/31 years old!!!)

just cause other players on his team got more touches doesn't mean he declined...his defense and efficiency improved, so i'd argue he was around the same at that age as earlier

ppg isn't everything, as these are stacked teams, so everyone can't get the points they do now on these teams...efficiency, defense and rebounding are all important
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:49 AM   #4362
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also I definitely did not see him play until well past his prime, if ever, but the fact that he shot 55% from the field and 66% from the line tells me he was getting a lot of easy ones.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:55 AM   #4363
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

he was the 9th best pf of all time according to that vote that someone linked earlier fwiw
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:57 AM   #4364
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Front court?
lol yes good catch
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:59 AM   #4365
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
Also I definitely did not see him play until well past his prime, if ever, but the fact that he shot 55% from the field and 66% from the line tells me he was getting a lot of easy ones.
It's a good thing dunks are worth just as much as 17 footers, then.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:59 AM   #4366
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
In an attempt to the get this back on track:

Does anyone think there are any potential player trades out there right now that would make BOTH pairings better? Interesting topic, I think.
I think we might see a couple blockbusters, but IMO we'll probably end up seeing 4th round players and lower being swapped.

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Serg to the rescue - this is actually an interesting question. I think the way to answer it is:
1. identify those teams with pairings that don't work
2. find "equal value" players (those picked close to one another, or guys who SHOULD have in a perfect world been picked close to one another)
3. make the hypothetical trade!

there are 16 2 man teams thus far, and of the 16, the pairings that don't make sense to me (thus far) are:
1. Webber and Dumars
2. Rodman and Miller
3. Melo and Yao (!!!)
4. Bynum and Wade (solely because Bynum is the worst player of everyone drafted thus far, in terms of pairings, it actually makes sense and probably brings out the best in Wade)*
5. Daughtery and Pippen

that's it, basically - I can see every team with a solid foundation. Doesn't mean that they couldn't have a BETTER foundation, but I wouldn't change the other teams makeups.

I just see Webber running a high post offense that involves inverting your offense so that you put your guards down low (so that Webber can make good decisions with the ball) and this somewhat nullifies or lessens Dumars 3pt shooting ability. Further, if you're playing Dumars at the 2, he is giving up height and weight, so you can't really post him. Defensively I always thought Webber was worse than the stats indicate.

Throwing some fun suggestions based on the above:
Webber for Rodman, Dumars/Rodman form essentially the bad boys, and Webber frees Reggie up for better 3pt looks or so forth.
Daughtery for Rodman, we all know Rodman works with Pippen on both ends incredibly well, and Reggie gets an inside presence rather than an offensive zero who can free up better shots for him (I like this trade best FWIW).
Melo for Webber, this allows Yao to have the block all to himself since Webber can play the 4 and just pop all day long, and since he's not a great shotblocker you have him guard the athletic big and stick Yao on the stronger big (caters to both their strength) - Melo and Dumars is like this years nuggets only Dumars passes more often, shoots less, is more efficient, and lets Melo be the #1 option without getting in his way.

Thoughts?
I like the trade ideas, but there's no way players will be handed back and forth 1 for 1. There would probably be some sort of pick compensation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholasp27 View Post
disagree...sure i coulda picked someone who gets more like 20-25ppg instead of 18, but they wouldn't be near as efficient or as good of a rebounder and defender

and in this league, with these stacked teams, your 20-25ppg inefficient scorers won't do near that...u can't just put 5 inefficient 20ppg players on a team and expect them to all hit 20ppg

he's top 30 all-time in fg%, ts, win-shares, defensive win-shares, rebounding and is a 4-time all-defensive team selection

i think the stats show he's not a reach at all
So...he's a really good role player. I think it's an alright matchup with Zo, but not perfect. Zo, while a solid first option, isn't that great without someone who can score playing along side him (not necessarily inefficiently, there are still some players left who shot a lot and were good doing it, and did other things well too). Buck was low usage his entire career (only thing I can go off of, having never seen him play) indicating that he wasn't a go-to scorer. It does add some to your defense, but with Zo, one of the best interior defenders in NBA history, it's not really that necessary. Just my .02.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:00 AM   #4367
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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thank god, the world almost ended, you missed the new proposed time limit by 8 hours!!!!!!!
I wonder how many picks we'll get in the next 8 hours.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:03 AM   #4368
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ill have a pick up within the hour.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:06 AM   #4369
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

My take on Buck Williams, who was one of my favorite players growing up.

Of all the NBA players I've seen play here's how I'd rank them as far as Post-Defense is concerned.

1. Ewing
2. Undrafted Player
3. Rodman with the Bulls (not Pistons)
4. Undrafted Player
5. Buck

In other words, his post defense was the stuff of legends. With one of the great help defenders in Mourning as a wingman, this creates an excellent defensive front court.

Offensively I feel Buck's numbers are a bit overrated due to playing with a couple great penetrators. Buck didn't have a back to the basket game and had absolutely NO jump shot, but obv he was great without the ball. As his numbers suggest, he's definitely not the type of player to hurt you in the offensive department. With Buck, you are going to get a lot of easy buckets if a double-team comes, and lots of putbacks... but you won't get someone who can manufacture scores.

The bottom line is that Buck could be a great pick, depending on who else will be around him... hmm that sounds like 90% of the picks so far.

Last edited by Seadood228; 05-19-2008 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:14 AM   #4370
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I wonder how many picks we'll get in the next 8 hours.
my point was that even if y'all did make the change, no one yet has gone that much longer than what you are proposing. Also, if you kick out the people that aren't contributing then you will not be able to have Bynum type laughs anymore. Bad picks (maybe not that LOL) have provided more of the better discussion in this thread.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:18 AM   #4371
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I wasn't insinuating anything, just wondering aloud.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:25 AM   #4372
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Good pick, Buck + Zo is the nuts
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:29 AM   #4373
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I wasn't insinuating anything, just wondering aloud.
i'll set line at 3.5
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:34 AM   #4374
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The Buck pick is solid.

I think the better question is where does he rank in all time goggle wearers?
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:40 AM   #4375
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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The Buck pick is solid.

I think the better question is where does he rank in all time goggle wearers?
1. Kareem
2. Buck
3 + 4 are players I can't name
5. Rambis.

Last edited by D104; 05-19-2008 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Duh, Worthy @ 2. Lakers were stacked with goggles!
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