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Old 05-19-2008, 02:40 AM   #4326
BobboFitos
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
KJ and Nique are awesome, but at this point you have 2/3 of your backcourt, neither of which can hit 3s, and you need to build a front court ASAP. So essentially you're either gonna have to pick a 4 who can hit 3s or potentially pass over better 2 guards just so you get one who can hit 3s.

Still, christ, those guys can get to the bucket at will.
can someone ever name a fast paced athletic team that succeeded with a low 3pt team%? for the life of me i can't remember a single one. (that is a bad thing for the pairing fwiw) however, this combo does sell tickets.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:53 AM   #4327
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Anyone have any good resources to research 80's players beyond stat profiles? something that would tell us ignoramuses how they actually played / what their skillset was, beyond the things that can be gleamed from the stats?
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:54 AM   #4328
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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In an attempt to the get this back on track:

Does anyone think there are any potential player trades out there right now that would make BOTH pairings better? Interesting topic, I think.
Serg to the rescue - this is actually an interesting question. I think the way to answer it is:
1. identify those teams with pairings that don't work
2. find "equal value" players (those picked close to one another, or guys who SHOULD have in a perfect world been picked close to one another)
3. make the hypothetical trade!

there are 16 2 man teams thus far, and of the 16, the pairings that don't make sense to me (thus far) are:
1. Webber and Dumars
2. Rodman and Miller
3. Melo and Yao (!!!)
4. Bynum and Wade (solely because Bynum is the worst player of everyone drafted thus far, in terms of pairings, it actually makes sense and probably brings out the best in Wade)*
5. Daughtery and Pippen

that's it, basically - I can see every team with a solid foundation. Doesn't mean that they couldn't have a BETTER foundation, but I wouldn't change the other teams makeups.

I just see Webber running a high post offense that involves inverting your offense so that you put your guards down low (so that Webber can make good decisions with the ball) and this somewhat nullifies or lessens Dumars 3pt shooting ability. Further, if you're playing Dumars at the 2, he is giving up height and weight, so you can't really post him. Defensively I always thought Webber was worse than the stats indicate.

Throwing some fun suggestions based on the above:
Webber for Rodman, Dumars/Rodman form essentially the bad boys, and Webber frees Reggie up for better 3pt looks or so forth.
Daughtery for Rodman, we all know Rodman works with Pippen on both ends incredibly well, and Reggie gets an inside presence rather than an offensive zero who can free up better shots for him (I like this trade best FWIW).
Melo for Webber, this allows Yao to have the block all to himself since Webber can play the 4 and just pop all day long, and since he's not a great shotblocker you have him guard the athletic big and stick Yao on the stronger big (caters to both their strength) - Melo and Dumars is like this years nuggets only Dumars passes more often, shoots less, is more efficient, and lets Melo be the #1 option without getting in his way.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:09 AM   #4329
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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can someone ever name a fast paced athletic team that succeeded with a low 3pt team%? for the life of me i can't remember a single one. (that is a bad thing for the pairing fwiw) however, this combo does sell tickets.
Warriors shot .348 at 3s.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:13 AM   #4330
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

HSP -

Quote:
can someone ever name a fast paced athletic team that succeeded with a low 3pt team%? for the life of me i can't remember a single one. (that is a bad thing for the pairing fwiw) however, this combo does sell tickets.
to me success is a sustained playoff run at the minimum; finals appearances (or titles, obv) and regular season dominance all work. i love the warriors but i think trying to get a team to emulate their approach will not work in this tourney.

so... any fast paced team, full of athletes, but shot a low 3pt% - anyone?
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:17 AM   #4331
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

for the record, zoidberg picked 5-17 10:57 (pm). it's 5-19 3:16 (am). That's over the 24hr limit. further, he really has little to no activity in the thread. i suggest looking for a replacement, dont know why we should throw him a bone when he has added little to nothing in the means of conversation.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:19 AM   #4332
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

06-07 Warriors shot .356 at 3s. And notwithstanding how unlucky this season's team was to miss the playoffs, it did win 48 games playing that way, including many against top teams.

I think a team like the Warriors would work pretty well if you got a real power forward like KG or even Matrix instead of Al ****ing Harrington
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:20 AM   #4333
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Define low 3pt % - 33%, 30% and below? Just curious before I try to think of some teams from the early 90s.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:22 AM   #4334
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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06-07 Warriors shot .356 at 3s. And notwithstanding how unlucky this season's team was to miss the playoffs, it did win 48 games playing that way, including many against top teams.
35.6% isn't that bad at the 3ball tho. it's right around league average. i do agree it was unlucky that they missed the playoffs, when any other year they would've made it. (and a LAL/GSW series would've been NUTS to boot, esp. after the reg season game that ended on a fisher flop)

i will try to find sortable stats to find this sort of info, bc on a personal level id loveto believe such a team exists, i just don't think on a practical level it does (which is why building a team to accomplish that is a lofty goal but perhaps not an achievable one, if that makes sense)
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:23 AM   #4335
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

pretty much "low" means a little below avg. avg 3pt shooting tends to jump around a little bit year to year, but i suppose for sake of clarity 33% or lower is inefficient.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:51 AM   #4336
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah, it's probably really hard to find a team (fast paced, low 3pt %) that meets those specs (dominant regular season and/or playoffs).

Some of the old Warrior teams had decent success in the regular season, but not much in the playoffs.

The Suns were kind of statistical anomaly the year they almost qualify (just below league average for 3pt %, 5th best regular season record, lost to the NBA champions in 7 games - West Semi-finals) because in other years they shot a higher percentage (Previous season they were 3rd in 3FG% and made the finals.). 1042 3FGA, 7080 FGA. They did shoot a ridiculously high percentage which a team with KJ and Nique wouldn't really rely on from them. I think that's why this discussion is happening.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:32 AM   #4337
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
HSP -



to me success is a sustained playoff run at the minimum; finals appearances (or titles, obv) and regular season dominance all work. i love the warriors but i think trying to get a team to emulate their approach will not work in this tourney.

so... any fast paced team, full of athletes, but shot a low 3pt% - anyone?
How about the Showtime Lakers teams from 80-85?

According to basketball-reference their 3pt % were:

79-80: 20%
80-81: 18%
81-82: 13%
82-83: 10%
83-84: 26%
84-85: 30%

In that stretch, they won 3 championships and lost in the finals twice.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:13 AM   #4338
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
for the record, zoidberg picked 5-17 10:57 (pm). it's 5-19 3:16 (am). That's over the 24hr limit. further, he really has little to no activity in the thread. i suggest looking for a replacement, dont know why we should throw him a bone when he has added little to nothing in the means of conversation.
I'd do this if needed. I don't know nearly as much about basketball as most of you, but I've been following this pretty regularly.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:22 AM   #4339
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm gonna be so pissed if the Premiership draft passes us in picks, they've been picking at a steady pace.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:02 AM   #4340
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

For the record Nicholas is generally on a lot on the weekdays (not late at night), but never on 2p2 on weekends.

Now that you've waited I would expect the pick fairly early est today.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:21 AM   #4341
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Mano View Post
How about the Showtime Lakers teams from 80-85?

According to basketball-reference their 3pt % were:

79-80: 20%
80-81: 18%
81-82: 13%
82-83: 10%
83-84: 26%
84-85: 30%

In that stretch, they won 3 championships and lost in the finals twice.

Those teams shot 532 3 pointers. Total. That wasvn't even that low, their opponents only shot 1030 against them in that span. Nobody shot 3s until well after the 3-pt line was introduced, because teams weren't built around hitting the 3.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:28 AM   #4342
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

sorry guys; i don't get on 2+2 over the weekends...there were lots of people before me when i left friday so i didn't think it'd get to me before last night/this morning...next time i'll pm some picks before i go for the weekend

i'll get my pick up shortly
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:35 AM   #4343
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

thank god, the world almost ended, you missed the new proposed time limit by 8 hours!!!!!!!
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:04 AM   #4344
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Epeen,

Cut out the levelling. It's not only against the FAQ, but your posts are sometimes so insane that we really can't tell the difference.

Thanks
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:05 AM   #4345
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Excellent Buck Williams pick.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:05 AM   #4346
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

**** i though buck was gonna fall to me even so that i saved my list of players as buck williams

as;fdlkjewiopur
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:07 AM   #4347
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Buck! I like it, although I wish you could get him a little younger, you're missing out on 3 great years. If you want rebounding, defense + efficiency, you got it.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:08 AM   #4348
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Big-Big, I'm thinking about that option myself. Good that a vet was picked, I still think there are better value picks available but it was a good pick imo.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:08 AM   #4349
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I picked Buck Williams to team with Zo down low. Here is what I said:

"With this pick, i am getting an 18/12 player who shot 54.9% from the field over his career (12th all-time in nba history). Additionally, Buck made 4 All-Defensive Teams, 2nd team All-NBA, won Rookie of the Year in '82 and is 13th all-time in career rebounds, 18th all-time in Defensive Win Shares and 27th all time in Win Shares. He is also a durable player, with only 2 seasons below 80 games played (70 and 74) by the age of 34. He will pair with Zo down low to form an efficient scoring duo that should be near the top of the league in defense and rebounding."
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:09 AM   #4350
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

never seen him play but looking at numbers makes me think this was a reach unless he was truly studly on the defensive end.
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