Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2008, 05:29 PM   #4076
NozeCandy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
NozeCandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: lol goofybawler
Posts: 29,251
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

You know, I was somewhat happy when I saw this thread had a ton of replies since I last saw it since I figured it would be some good debates about the players taken, but all the last few pages have left me with is a tremendous urge to stab people in the face and I skipped about 2/3 of Assani/Epip's exchanges.

Oh and I'm too lazy to figure out the exact wording of the questions for the Three Gods Problem, but it doesn't really seem too bad on the surface. Just qualify the hell out of your questions to eliminate the two major unknown variables (which word is yes/no and which god is Random) and it seems like you could probably knock it out in 3. Not going to sit here and figure out the questions though, don't feel like making my head hurt during summer.
NozeCandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:31 PM   #4077
ZBTHorton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 19,874
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post

What I do feel strongly about is that McHale's offense is not two greater than signs better than Amare's, I would never take McHale over Magic or Bird, McHale is nowhere close to the rebounder Chuck is, and you overrate McHale overall.
+100
ZBTHorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:33 PM   #4078
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Agreed, I also feel strongly that this draft is going way too slow (a lot of it due to u Assani) and that tons of people are complaing and rightfully so. I feel strongly that u should make a 24 hour timelimit for EVERY pick not just the first round ones, and I'm sure tons of people will agree with me on this.
No thanks, but feel free to start your own draft with a 24 hour time limit.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:34 PM   #4079
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

arguing who is better in this league between players with different skill sets (Malone/Barkley/McHale) is almost as trivial as arguing who is better between players who play different positions.

it's all about team makeup, so as long as one of the given players is better than the others at something someone can always argue that specific attribute is more important (or simply what his team is going to be built around)

hence why mchale/billups could be a good pairing, even though i don't think Billups is even a top-10 PG in this draft.

cliff's notes: stop arguing with ePeen. although he's taking a side that's in the vast minority, i dont think you can prove anything concrete enough that would convince him of this. and yes, i think he's crazy too
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:36 PM   #4080
ZBTHorton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 19,874
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm confused about why people think reducing the time limit to 24 hours is going to accomplish anything. We've only had one pick that has taken a long time, and I'm not even sure it hit 24 hours.........
ZBTHorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:39 PM   #4081
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBTHorton View Post
I'm confused about why people think reducing the time limit to 24 hours is going to accomplish anything. We've only had one pick that has taken a long time, and I'm not even sure it hit 24 hours.........
recency bias

27-hour pick, followed by a quick pick, followed by a 18-hour (and counting) pick
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:41 PM   #4082
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBTHorton View Post
I'm confused about why people think reducing the time limit to 24 hours is going to accomplish anything. We've only had one pick that has taken a long time, and I'm not even sure it hit 24 hours.........
Would rather have it at 12 or 18 hours even, but at least 24 sends a message that u can't disapear for days on end and have it be ok, as it's called sniping a problem before it becomes an even bigger issue (just because it has only happened once, doesn't mean it won't happen again especially since the draft isn't even 1/5th done).

Now someone tell me what the DOWNSIDE of NOT having at least a 24 hour rule is?
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:43 PM   #4083
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Seriously, we need to do away with the no time limit on picks immediately. There's no reason we can't impose a 12 hour time limit.
Holy ****, you guys are impatient. I was very clear that this was a slow paced draft. I personally have no problem if some picks take TWO WEEKS. I'm in no hurry and I'd much rather debate than speed through a draft. The point of this draft is to cause debate, and I want to focus on that. Go play some poker/surf the net/look at porn/go out of the house and come back in a few days and I'm sure some progress will have been made.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:44 PM   #4084
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Obv I agree, as I tried to make a league like this with committed owners and a 15 hour timelimit (where hopefully it would only be used once or twice and people would pick within 1-4 hours let's say.)
LOL@ thinking that a time limit is going to make people pick within 1/4 of that time limit. And you didn't pick 15 hours; You started a 24 hour time limit draft which you changed at other's requests. If this draft had a 24 hour time limit, then people would use those 24 hours for sure.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:45 PM   #4085
ZBTHorton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 19,874
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

A 12 hour time limit is kind of silly. That basically says you can't spend an entire day away from your computer during this entire draft, which is likely to last a couple of weeks.

18 hours makes more sense though.
ZBTHorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:46 PM   #4086
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Imo, we should be able to average about 5 picks a day. Seems about perfect amount to generate a lot of discussion about each pick, but still keep it moving at a nice pace. Right now we're averaging about 4.5, but it's def been slowing. Over the last 3 days down to 2 picks/day.
1. So we're right about on the pace you'd like. Glad to hear it.

2. A few posters are slower than others. I would rather have 40 owners and have a few slow ones than have 20 owners who are all really quick.

3. Its the weekend. A lot of people work normal jobs and only check online forums while they're at work.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:46 PM   #4087
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Holy ****, you guys are impatient. I was very clear that this was a slow paced draft. I personally have no problem if some picks take TWO WEEKS. I'm in no hurry and I'd much rather debate than speed through a draft. The point of this draft is to cause debate, and I want to focus on that. Go play some poker/surf the net/look at porn/go out of the house and come back in a few days and I'm sure some progress will have been made.
There will be plenty of discussion AFTER the draft is done (this is where the majority of discussion should be anyway). And OMG we can actually name every player too, creating better discussion, since they would have all been drafted by then.

There will be plenty/better discussion during the draft as well, if we make more picks per day than we have been (as long as its not like 20 picks in a day on average, somewhere around 10 picks a day seems perfect). As you can see, the discussion died down once the picking of players died down. We don't need 2 weeks to discuss players, infact even a day between picks is farrrrrrrrr too long as u can see from the LACK of discussion.
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:48 PM   #4088
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,790
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
I personally have no problem if some picks take TWO WEEKS
ya but everyone else has a huge problem with this.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:48 PM   #4089
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
It's his fault for allowing a) no timelimit after round 1, b) letting these people to either stay in the league (there are a few people like xorbie and others who I forgot who have expressed interest in doing this and I'm sure would GLADLY take over a team), or sign up for it in the first place (there should be no one allowed to sign up that doesn't post on 2+2 often).
Even if I had a time limit after round one, THE TIME LIMIT HAS NEVER BEEN BROKEN ONCE. I honestly can't believe your logic here.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:49 PM   #4090
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Looks like everyone so far is against u Assani (sound familar?). And who is the one being stubburn now?
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:49 PM   #4091
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NozeCandy View Post

Oh and I'm too lazy to figure out the exact wording of the questions for the Three Gods Problem, but it doesn't really seem too bad on the surface. Just qualify the hell out of your questions to eliminate the two major unknown variables (which word is yes/no and which god is Random) and it seems like you could probably knock it out in 3. Not going to sit here and figure out the questions though, don't feel like making my head hurt during summer.
The questions you have to ask are extremely complex actually.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:50 PM   #4092
kbfc
Pooh-Bah
 
kbfc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Let's NBA
Posts: 4,225
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
No! It does not take a great PG to make Amare successful in the pick n roll. Steve Nash is great because of his insane shooting ability for a PG. Contrary to popular belief, Steve Nash is not that much better at passing than (just realized I was naming names...basically I named a bunch of slightly above average NBA PGs)....
Where are the Sun's homers and acolytes of Nash Head to bash this?

I'm sorry, but I can't think of a PG in the NBA right now that makes the pick'n'roll bounce pass better than Nash, with either hand, off the dribble or not. And that's not a trivial pass to make, otherwise you'd see it a lot more.

Anyway, as to the Epi debate, I actually mostly agree with him, but the homerism is ridiculous.

McHale is a better player than Amare no doubt, but it's not because of offense. And while his great defense certainly has a lot of value in this format, an offensive black hole is similarly less valuable.

I think that, while in general the teams are going to be about as deep as a regular NBA team, there are a lot more good bigman defenders spread throughout the draft than exist in the NBA at any 1 time. Low-post iso's with a guy who can't pass is NOT the way I'd go about running an offense, even if he could handle the task better than anyone else (except Shaq, who probably WAS good enough to do this). See how the good the Spurs look when NO doubles Duncan? That's because Duncan is great at passing out of the double, not just putting the moves on in the post.

And just reading this thread, I've come up with a lot of tasty ideas about ways to better analyze rebounding, but I find it very doubtful that when I run the numbers, Barkley is going to look any less dominant on the boards relative to KM.
kbfc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:50 PM   #4093
ZBTHorton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 19,874
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Epip:

WTF are you talking about??? Only ONE pick in this entire draft would have been changed time limit wise, and only by 3 hours.

EDIT: I'm not saying a 24 hour time limit doesn't have merit. But acting as if a 24 hour time limit somehow changes things makes no sense.
ZBTHorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:53 PM   #4094
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Would rather have it at 12 or 18 hours even, but at least 24 sends a message that u can't disapear for days on end and have it be ok, as it's called sniping a problem before it becomes an even bigger issue (just because it has only happened once, doesn't mean it won't happen again especially since the draft isn't even 1/5th done).

Now someone tell me what the DOWNSIDE of NOT having at least a 24 hour rule is?
Trust me, if anyone greatly abuses the no time limit rule(for example, taking over 2 days or taking over 24 hours on multiple picks without having a good explanation) then I'll have a private chat with them via PM and decide if they should belong in the draft. However, I'm not going to start freaking out everytime someone uses a portion of the proposed time limit like you guys are....its ridiculous how impatient you're acting(not you in particular).
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:54 PM   #4095
KLJ
20k hands/day
 
KLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topeka
Posts: 5,701
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBTHorton View Post
A 12 hour time limit is kind of silly. That basically says you can't spend an entire day away from your computer during this entire draft, which is likely to last a couple of weeks.

18 hours makes more sense though.
Not true, when people would be picking once every 10 days (6 hours per pick, 40 picks) on average. Shouldn't be too tough to spend like one of your waking hours on SE during that day, but I guess I have more extra time than most.

Obviously I'd prefer a time limit on picks because I'm a 2p2 whore, but I don't think it's necessary.
KLJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:54 PM   #4096
EPiPeN11
banned
 
EPiPeN11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: akon is the goat
Posts: 18,605
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBTHorton View Post
Epip:

WTF are you talking about??? Only ONE pick in this entire draft would have been changed time limit wise, and only by 3 hours.

EDIT: I'm not saying a 24 hour time limit doesn't have merit. But acting as if a 24 hour time limit somehow changes things makes no sense.
This is why I want a 12 or at least 18 hour time limit. Even a 24 hour time limit DOES change things (wtf at it not changing anything, are u actually serious??????????????), because it won't allow anyone to take over 24 hours. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING ONLY HAPPENED ONCE DOESN'T MEAN SOMEONE CAN'T JUST RUN OFF FOR 2-3 DAYS AND NOT MAKE A PICK. (sorry for caps, but it's hard getting my point across to some of u).
EPiPeN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:54 PM   #4097
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
There will be plenty of discussion AFTER the draft is done (this is where the majority of discussion should be anyway). And OMG we can actually name every player too, creating better discussion, since they would have all been drafted by then.

There will be plenty/better discussion during the draft as well, if we make more picks per day than we have been (as long as its not like 20 picks in a day on average, somewhere around 10 picks a day seems perfect). As you can see, the discussion died down once the picking of players died down. We don't need 2 weeks to discuss players, infact even a day between picks is farrrrrrrrr too long as u can see from the LACK of discussion.
wtf? Have you not just been in a huge 3 page debate? Lags in the draft cause more debate. When there were a lot of picks in a row, there was a lot of "yea decent pick" and then moving onto the next pick.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:56 PM   #4098
Seadood228
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Seadood228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossmoor, CA
Posts: 30,306
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
[b]I said I would take McHale over Bird or Magic [b/]but obv a case could be made (being that I def can see someone taking either over McHale and not bash it at all and I would take Bird/Magic if this was an ordinary NBA era ie. just one era not 30 years of players). I just feel that offense is so deep, that getting someone who can play BOTH elite offense and defense is at a premium.

I am glad u actually saw McHale play, and agree with me on a lot of points I made where others who didn't see him play didn't. I am also glad u said u would take him over Barkley, as I clearly would too.
Epi, if you were so high on McHale, why were you trying to trade everyone in the top 10 for their picks? For some reason I think you'd be defending any pick that you made to the death... So I'm going to call BS on this.
Seadood228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:56 PM   #4099
ZBTHorton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 19,874
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
Not true, when people would be picking once every 10 days (6 hours per pick, 40 picks) on average. Shouldn't be too tough to spend like one of your waking hours on SE during that day, but I guess I have more extra time than most.

Obviously I'd prefer a time limit on picks because I'm a 2p2 whore, but I don't think it's necessary.
But the picks don't average every 6 hours. They seem to come in bursts, depending on when the slower picks are made.

I mean, I hear what you're saying. But 12 hours is still silly. 18 hours would be fine. 24 hours would also be fine.
ZBTHorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:56 PM   #4100
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
ya but everyone else has a huge problem with this.
1. Obvioulsy I'm exaggerating. As I said, if a drafter is making us wait too long for no good reason then I will have a private talk via PM with him. However notice I said "for no good reason." If someone's reason is "I never check the internet during the weekend" then thats perfectly acceptable imo.

2. I was EXTREMELY CLEAR FROM THE START ON THE RULES. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you didn't like the rules then you either should have not joined or brought it up before we even began anything.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive