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Old 05-18-2008, 02:07 PM   #3951
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I seriously think you're the most arrogant person I've ever encountered on this board, and thats saying something. Are you like this in real life? You never ever think you could be wrong. I still havn't seen you change your opinion ever.
I've changed my opinions plenty of times in my life, heck just look at the Dumars pick. I admited I didn't know he played PG, and because of that I liked the picked a lot better than I previously did.

Now let's look at u, I have never seen u change ur opinion ever.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:09 PM   #3952
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Your acting like McHale was a typical bench player. He played almost starter minutes. Then you have Amare, who doesn't play as many minutes as most starters in the league. Take a look at the PERs, Amare's are pretty damn high. I'll give you Amare is nowhere near as good defensively as McHale but I think your too easy to discredit how good Amare is on the offensive side of the ball.

Also it's a double edge sword, I doubt McHale was ever double teammed (very often) b/c he played on such a stacked team. Amare is also on a stacked team but he is the only player that is constantly double teammed.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:11 PM   #3953
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Of course Amare would be successful with any PG in the pick and roll, Amare is a great player. He just wouldn't be nearly as succesful as he is with Nash.

And it's because fg% off pick and rolls and fg% off low post are two different things (obv the pick and roll one is higher, because they are only getting the ball for the most part when they are open). I'm sure u think Chandler is a great offensive player too, I mean he shoots 60 percent from the field lol.

When comparing McHale's fg% u need to compare him to other low post scorers, not to pick and roll only players for reasons I explained above. McHale wins vs all of them except Shaq.
Amare takes 15+ shots per game. Chandler takes about 6. Great comparison there. Mchale also took about 15 shots per game in his prime.

Again, I'm just not understanding why 15 FG attempts out of the post are more valuable than 15 shot attempts out of the pick n roll.

Amare gets the ball in isolation far more than you think. Hes not getting 15 dunks every game off of the pick n roll.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:12 PM   #3954
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Your acting like McHale was a typical bench player. He played almost starter minutes. Then you have Amare, who doesn't play as many minutes as most starters in the league. Take a look at the PERs, Amare's are pretty damn high. I'll give you Amare is nowhere near as good defensively as McHale but I think your too easy to discredit how good Amare is on the offensive side of the ball.
I def don't discredit how good Amare is on the offensive side of the ball. Heck I am an Amare fan, and he is obv a great offensive player, one of the best of all time no doubt. But he is not better on offense than McHale was, it's you guys who discredit how good on offense McHale was.

He was arguably the 2nd best bigman on offense in this draft besides Shaq.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:15 PM   #3955
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I've changed my opinions plenty of times in my life, heck just look at the Dumars pick. I admited I didn't know he played PG, and because of that I liked the picked a lot better than I previously did.

Now let's look at u, I have never seen u change ur opinion ever.
LOL...

Someone telling you a fact that you did not know is not changing your opinion. In this thread alone I have changed my opinion on....



-At first I said I'd take Dirk over Barkley.

-At first I had Kidd over Payton.

-I never had Nance ranked so highly.

-At first I was defending the Paul pick, whereas now I think Stockton should've gone there.


edit: Please tell me one time ever when 90% OF PEOPLE IN THE THREAD ARE TELLING ME I'M WRONG AND I REFUSE TO CHANGE MY POINT OF VIEW. I've seen you do that multiple times.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:16 PM   #3956
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also you say how great McHale was defensively. What would you put him defensively for a bigman in the draft? If you put him top 2 or top 5 or maybe even top 7 I'm going to laugh at you.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:16 PM   #3957
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I thought u did bring up drtg, since u always seem to throughout this thread.
I believe I brought up drtg one time: When I did my write up on Tim Duncan. When else do you remember me bringing it up? And what do you mean you "thought I brought it up"? You can read my posts, correct? Either I did or I didn't.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:19 PM   #3958
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

OMG all the espn analysts agree with Epi that McHale was better than Barkley and Malone

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360

Oh wait, they don't
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:19 PM   #3959
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

also before you get uppity about Garnett being lower, this was from three years ago.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:20 PM   #3960
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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OMG all the espn analysts agree with Epi that McHale was better than Barkley and Malone

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360

Oh wait, they don't
OMG and I guarentee u all of them rank Malone/Barkley ahead because of longevity. Heck even with the longevity argument which is always brought up in discussing the greatest player at any position, some analyists STILL picked McHale over Barkley and Malone. I already said career wise Malone/Barkley were better, this isn't a draft based on careers only though (considering McHale would imo be considered better than Malone/Barkley if he hadn't a) came off the bench for 5-6 years and b) not played on a broken foot, neither which will happen in this league).
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:22 PM   #3961
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Since Amare hit his prime he has put up TS%s of 61.7 and 65.5. Hes insanely good offensively. If someone were to come in here, do an indepth analysis, and conclude that McHale and Amare were relatively equal on offense I'd go with that. But to come in here, state your opinions as absolute facts, and say that McHale>Amare on offense is just arrogant and foolish imo. Especially so when you're relying upon other people's opinions to form your opinion.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:24 PM   #3962
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by snowden719 View Post
OMG all the espn analysts agree with Epi that McHale was better than Barkley and Malone

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360

Oh wait, they don't
The voters were: Greg Anthony (GA), Chris Broussard (CB), Ric Bucher (RB), John Hollinger (JH), Scoop Jackson (SJ), Brian James (BJ), Tim Legler (TL), Eric Neel (EN), Jack Ramsay (JR), Marc Stein (MS), Tom Tolbert (TT).


I can't believe we're actually arguing over what these guys believe as if that somehow means anything.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:25 PM   #3963
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I don't have the answer to the riddle at hand actually. I'm sure its available though. Just google "three gods problem" or "Harvard Review of Philosophy Hardest Logic Problem Ever."
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:29 PM   #3964
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Assani, obviously their opinion isn't any more valuable then someone's on this board that has taken the time to do their research, I just thought it funny that Epi was making it out to be the case that all ESPN analysts thought he was better than Barkley and Malone, when apparently they don't.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:29 PM   #3965
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post

He was arguably the 2nd best bigman on offense in this draft besides Shaq.
Please stop making these big assumptions. Just because he got injured and played off the bench for ages doesnt mean you can make giant extrapolations into making him amazing. This is just as bad as (and possibly worse) the rampant overvaluing of unproven young players.

The fact that their are factors that limited Mchale should be a negative on the argument. They shouldnt be a positive through allowing you to make huge "BUT WHAT IF???" statements that add up to nothing substantially.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:31 PM   #3966
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Why are we talking about ESPN analysts? I am seriously asking why? Their opinion means dick to me.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:31 PM   #3967
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Assani, obviously their opinion isn't any more valuable then someone's on this board that has taken the time to do their research, I just thought it funny that Epi was making it out to be the case that all ESPN analysts thought he was better than Barkley and Malone, when apparently they don't.
Uh career wise I never said he was better than Barkley or Malone, please get ur facts straight.

I said if we took the rules of this draft into consideration (players are cloned at age 24), that McHale would be better than Barkley or Malone.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:31 PM   #3968
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Couldn't also people make the assumption, I'm going to keep on Shawn Kemp to help him avoid getting fat and sucking. Or I'm going to avoid playing Webber when his team is getting blown out in the playoffs so his huge injury never happens. I guess we all can make some rediculous assumptions too.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:33 PM   #3969
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Please stop making these big assumptions. Just because he got injured and played off the bench for ages doesnt mean you can make giant extrapolations into making him amazing. This is just as bad as (and possibly worse) the rampant overvaluing of unproven young players.

The fact that their are factors that limited Mchale should be a negative on the argument. They shouldnt be a positive through allowing you to make huge "BUT WHAT IF???" statements that add up to nothing substantially.
Because McHale was PROVEN unlike these "unproven" young players. He was considered the best low post scorer of all time, with the best post moves of all time before Shaq came into the picture.

Someone like Bynum is unproven. We don't know if he will develop a jump shot, post moves etc. We know McHale developed both, and both were ridiculously elite.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:36 PM   #3970
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Why are we talking about ESPN analysts? I am seriously asking why? Their opinion means dick to me.
Because pretty much all of us didn't see McHale in his prime.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:37 PM   #3971
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra View Post
Please stop making these big assumptions. Just because he got injured and played off the bench for ages doesnt mean you can make giant extrapolations into making him amazing. This is just as bad as (and possibly worse) the rampant overvaluing of unproven young players.

The fact that their are factors that limited Mchale should be a negative on the argument. They shouldnt be a positive through allowing you to make huge "BUT WHAT IF???" statements that add up to nothing substantially.
this.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:39 PM   #3972
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Because Amare NEEDS a great pg for this to happen. There are only a handful of Steve Nash's in league history.
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Of course Amare would be successful with any PG in the pick and roll, Amare is a great player.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:40 PM   #3973
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

McHale was a very efficient scorer who played about 32 minutes/game. He was a good passer. Not a great rebounder, even factoring in teammates. Everything else was pretty much what you'd expect out of a forward.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:42 PM   #3974
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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McHale was a very efficient scorer who played about 32 minutes/game. He was a good passer. Not a great rebounder, even factoring in teammates. Everything else was pretty much what you'd expect out of a forward.
lol ur whole statement is ridiculously wrong, especially the bolded parts.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:42 PM   #3975
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Glad u cut out my statement after that where I said, he just wouldn't be nearly as successful as he was with Nash.
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