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Old 05-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #3426
horizon
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
You do realize that a lower Drtg is better than a high one, right?
yeah thta was my point that according to stats: Ginobili>>>>Bowen on defense which is ridiculous and show that this stats are mostly crap.

Of course, I did write Bowen instead of ginobili....
that was stupid, but reraad the post with ginobile instead of Bowen and you'll see that it makes sense
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #3427
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A lesser version of the 03-04 Pistons will not be the best team in the league.
Eh...that's only because the depth our teams will have. No team we create will be able to beat MANY of the champion teams

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Wait....what?
(this was about GP not being a great passer)...I mean he was good, but he's not on the Nash/Stockton/Kidd level and while not a huge dropoff, certainly would've helped a player like him. also, i agree with you to an extent that Malone was also perfect for Stockton, but i think you're missing the point. it's not that Kemp could've gone and done exactly what Malone did, it's that they would've adapted and Kemp would've posted some sick stats. I mean, do Deron and Booze do what Stockton and Malone did? no, but using your logic you would think they did.

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drafting bynum is like staking a guy who went on a 200 hand heater, seriously.
lol kbfc nailed it.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:12 PM   #3428
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
BTW, Bynum really is LOL bad. And by LOL bad, I mean, at least 2 rounds too early, if not more.
Worse than Isiah?

COME ON ONE TIME
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:13 PM   #3429
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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A debate??? Of course I'm up for it!

Barkley >> McHale on offense imo.

Let me hear it...
Obv I think Barkley is the best offensive bigman besides Shaq/McHale and he is def close to McHale, but McHale is better imo.

McHale is very hard to evaluate using just stats. He came off the bench, and wasn't used nearly as much during his early years.

McHale didn't start til either the 84-85 or 85-86 can't remember which and i'm pretty sure he only started for like half the season, maybe even less.

He also only had about 1.5 years of his statistical dominance because in the 86-87 playoffs he messed up his ankle and continued to play on it against doctors orders. He messed up the rest of his career because of that decision.

But during that 1 year, he put up ridiculous numbers, especially in efficency. He shot .604 from the field in both years, scored 26.1 pts. He also shot .836 from the line and only became an even better ft shooter as his career went on (ankle injuries dont effect ft shooting much at all.)

Even though McHale only had 1.5 years of true statistical domiance, his best season in 86-87 is better than ANY of Barkley's years except for 1989-1990 and 1990-1991. If McHale had played more early in his career (not been a 6th man), and had not suffered an ankle injury and played on it against doctors orders, he would have put up many more years of domiance which should have been better than Barkley's overall since McHale only did it in 1 season due to circumstances he couldn't control (well aside from the ankle but we will make sure that doesn't happen in this league).

They also made a rule against Barkley called the 5 second rule, because Barkley would just sit in the post and not make a move until sometimes 15 seconds after. This rule ended up hurting Barkley and i'm pretty sure it was immplimented after Barkley's 2 better year's, and Barkley saw a drastic decrease in stats after this.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:15 PM   #3430
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
A debate??? Of course I'm up for it!

Barkley >> McHale on offense imo.

Let me hear it...
Epipen are you serious? Stop using your green eyes.

Hakeem?
David?

Shaq TS% is actualy the lowest of your 3 in the example. I'm not sure what your going by but no way McHale is 2nd in this era.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:16 PM   #3431
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
busted it towards the end of '86-'87. Ignores docs and balls hard in the playoffs; loses to Lakers in 6.

Has surgery or whatever.

Back for the '87-'88 season, think he missed the first month or whatever. Plays 64 games post-injury, with Bird. Puts up very good numbers.

'88-'89 Bird is out.. McHale puts up pretty much identical numbers as the season before in 78 games.
Ya but his ankle continued to keep feeling worse year to year, he was not as healthy in 88-89 as he was in 87-88.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:17 PM   #3432
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by HighStakesPro View Post
Barkley was also a much better rebounder and passer than McHale was.
The gap between McHale and Barkley's defense was FAR bigger than any edge Barkley had over McHale.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:19 PM   #3433
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Obv I think Barkley is the best offensive bigman besides Shaq/McHale and he is def close to McHale, but McHale is better imo.

McHale is very hard to evaluate using just stats. He came off the bench, and wasn't used nearly as much during his early years.

McHale didn't start til either the 84-85 or 85-86 can't remember which and i'm pretty sure he only started for like half the season, maybe even less.

He also only had about 1.5 years of his statistical dominance because in the 86-87 playoffs he messed up his ankle and continued to play on it against doctors orders. He messed up the rest of his career because of that decision.

But during that 1 year, he put up ridiculous numbers, especially in efficency. He shot .604 from the field in both years, scored 26.1 pts. He also shot .836 from the line and only became an even better ft shooter as his career went on (ankle injuries dont effect ft shooting much at all.)

Even though McHale only had 1.5 years of true statistical domiance, his best season in 86-87 is better than ANY of Barkley's years except for 1989-1990 and 1990-1991. If McHale had played more early in his career (not been a 6th man), and had not suffered an ankle injury and played on it against doctors orders, he would have put up many more years of domiance which should have been better than Barkley's overall since McHale only did it in 1 season due to circumstances he couldn't control (well aside from the ankle but we will make sure that doesn't happen in this league).

They also made a rule against Barkley called the 5 second rule, because Barkley would just sit in the post and not make a move until sometimes 15 seconds after. This rule ended up hurting Barkley and i'm pretty sure it was immplimented after Barkley's 2 better year's, and Barkley saw a drastic decrease in stats after this.
I was just kidding, don't really feel like debating....
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:19 PM   #3434
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
The gap between McHale and Barkley's defense was FAR bigger than any edge Barkley had over McHale.
Not a chance. I know McHale was great, but please remove yourself from his scrotum and smell the fresh air.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:19 PM   #3435
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Epipen are you serious? Stop using your green eyes.

Hakeem?
David?

Shaq TS% is actualy the lowest of your 3 in the example. I'm not sure what your going by but no way McHale is 2nd in this era.
McHale's only season of domiance for reasons explained above is far greater than any of Hakeem/David's seasons.

And u really think either Hakeem or David are better at offense than Shaq?
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:20 PM   #3436
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Seadood228 View Post
Not a chance. I know McHale was great, but please remove yourself from his scrotum and smell the fresh air.
McHale's defense was great. Barkley's defense was way below average.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:21 PM   #3437
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by horizon View Post
yeah thta was my point that according to stats: Ginobili>>>>Bowen on defense which is ridiculous and show that this stats are mostly crap.

Of course, I did write Bowen instead of ginobili....
that was stupid, but reraad the post with ginobile instead of Bowen and you'll see that it makes sense
ok, your post makes a lot more sense now.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:21 PM   #3438
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i like the sheed/glove pairing SO much. what a sick 1-2 combo. another guy i wanted badly
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:22 PM   #3439
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
They also made a rule against Barkley called the 5 second rule, because Barkley would just sit in the post and not make a move until sometimes 15 seconds after. This rule ended up hurting Barkley and i'm pretty sure it was immplimented after Barkley's 2 better year's, and Barkley saw a drastic decrease in stats after this.
I'm confused...how exactly does holding the ball for 15 seconds and leaving about 4 seconds on the shot clock(I'm assuming it took 5 seconds to bring the ball up and pass to him) give the offense an advantage, yet alone an unfair advantage?
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:23 PM   #3440
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I'm confused...how exactly does holding the ball for 15 seconds and leaving about 4 seconds on the shot clock(I'm assuming it took 5 seconds to bring the ball up and pass to him) give the offense an advantage, yet alone an unfair advantage?
He obv didn't use 15 seconds on every play hence me saying up to 15 seconds etc.

Barkley's move was to get the ball in the post, use his wide ass to back down his defender very slowly while checking to see if a double team came. If it came hard he passed to the open man, if not he would just slowly back his man down until he was like right inside the paint and had an easy shot.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:24 PM   #3441
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

did ben walace really go #50? man i dunno. i think the draft gets pretty interesting around now, i'm interested to see how people pick. i like the guy with bosh and worthy, seems like a good base.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:24 PM   #3442
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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McHale's only season of domiance for reasons explained above is far greater than any of Hakeem/David's seasons.

And u really think either Hakeem or David are better at offense than Shaq?
WTF, you sample his best 2 years and say that's why he was so good. He had 1 all-nba year.

Also what are you basing this on? Scoring ability? FG%? Post moves?
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:25 PM   #3443
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I am not a fan of the pairing of these two guards. How is Manu on defense? As far as I know it seems like this team has two massive holes on defense right now.
well, you're half right
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:27 PM   #3444
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Manu is pretty sick on D> Honestly I hate the guy, I think he's annoying but he's a rediculous player and a pretty damn good defender. I think he could be a 40 mpg guy and lead a team but that's not his job for the Spurs. I'm suprised he lasted so long especially over Bynum, Ben Wallace, etc.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:27 PM   #3445
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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WTF, you sample his best 2 years and say that's why he was so good. He had 1 all-nba year.

Also what are you basing this on? Scoring ability? FG%? Post moves?
Did you even read my reasons why I only mentioned his 1.5 years?

He was coming off the bench, getting limited minutes until the 85-86 season where I think halfway through he finally started.

His first full season of starting was during the next year.

During those year's playoffs, he hurt his ankle. He played on it, to try to help the Celtics win a championship, and ****ed it up for the rest of his career.

He only had one healthy/fully starting year.

And I am basing it on all of the above, scoring ability, fg %, post moves etc.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:28 PM   #3446
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Too bad Sheed's such a bad rebounder for his position. You'll get outrebounded constantly and the only thing you'll have to show for it is Sheed's average 3pt shooting.

Playing him at the 3 would be better imo.
Sheed is an incredible defender though
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:30 PM   #3447
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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He only had one healthy/fully starting year.
This is a huge concern to me. I guess it wasn't for you.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:32 PM   #3448
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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This is a huge concern to me. I guess it wasn't for you.
No because he will be starting right away at the age of 24 (he didn't start until halfway through his age 28 season on the Celtics), and if he hurts his ankle we will not let him play on it this time, and he will be able to rest it fully and come back healthy.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:35 PM   #3449
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
McHale's defense was great. Barkley's defense was way below average.
What are you basing this on?

Career D-rating:
Barkley - 105
McHale - 106

McHale had slightly more defensive win shares during his prime, but it was only through age 29, after which Barkley owns him in this category. I know you are going to say it's not about the stats, but to make the claim that McHale's defense was light years ahead of Barkley's, you'll have to substantiate it somehow.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:36 PM   #3450
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Bynum pick is possibly the worst pick of the draft so far
it was bad, i agree, but i still think the worthy/isiah fiasco in the 1st round was worse.

Quote:
Ginobili pick is just LOL bad. Any idea how many players like him will be left in the 5th round?
Yeah, none.

Quote:
Wallcae is pretty questionable too, again there are many power forwards left who were as good as or better than him.
perhaps in sheer "best player available," I could agree*, but in terms of what he brings to the table, absolutely not. he has a unique skill set.

*i don't agree tho, im a huge sheed fanboy
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