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Old 05-16-2008, 05:08 PM   #3251
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I am thinking Donnie Wahlberg in round ~5.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:12 PM   #3252
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i dont think nance is insane value. its pretty much where he belongs.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:12 PM   #3253
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Nance pick good, but I don't think there's much debate on that one....

As for the Bynum pick, at some point when this was starting up and there was 35 or so teams, I considered joining and building a fun team rather than best possible. Bynum was either going to be my first rounder or high second round as the snake would come right back to me. If I didn't pick him first, I would have picked "my guy" who is still available and paired him with Bynum to own fools.

In terms of pure EV, Bynum is risky, no doubt, especially given how long he's taken with his current injury (although wtf do any of us know about what's really going on there). When the draft is finally over around the all-star break of the 08-09 season, though, and the Lakers are 38-3 or something with him at C, the pick is gonna look really good. Or maybe it won't, but it's fun nonetheless.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:13 PM   #3254
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

other than the few guys who will probably take the coach thing seriously since a few coaches warrant it, I mostly just think it's going to be fun. I mean, there have been a ton of coaches and many are lol. I've got a few good alternatives should someone sign their own death warrant by taking Larry.

edit: agree with kbfc that fun is definitely an aspect of this. I still might go gimmicky depending on who's available when I pick.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:14 PM   #3255
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
if NBA owners lost all their players this offseason and had to draft new teams from the available players (who you magically get at age 24), where do you think Bynum would go?

I'd bet first round.
I can't really get into without naming names, so let me just say this - since 1980, how many young players have shown brief flashes of brilliance but never put it together long term and became an allstar. There are centers out there with better proven numbers over larger samples that fizzled out. You could take them and argue that in this league, whatever happened to them wouldn't happen and they would become great.

There are enough players like that so taking Bynum this early is just LOL bad.

D
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:17 PM   #3256
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Bynum has played 3 seasons but hasn't he had serious injury issues in 2 of them already? Also his numbers are solid but there are a ton of better players available. Now he could be a top 5 center eventually in the NBA, and he actually should be, but to take him is a stretch atleast this early.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:18 PM   #3257
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Not sure about that. If age was a factor then yes though. He wouldn't go ahead of just about anyone who has gotten picked yet. The reason he would get picked so young is his age and upside not that he's that much better than everyone if they were 24.
I think there's only like 25-30 active players that have been drafted. My point was that size is a premium, and Bynum has shown flashes of being pretty good (not saying he's going to be), which is really, really rare for a 7 footer. I think the Bynum pick was early, yes, but saying he possibly shouldnt be drafted is borderline insane. I was fully expecting him to go round 3.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:19 PM   #3258
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Size is def NOT a premium in this draft and it's not even close.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:19 PM   #3259
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I can't really get into without naming names, so let me just say this - since 1980, how many young players have shown brief flashes of brilliance but never put it together long term and became an allstar. There are centers out there with better proven numbers over larger samples that fizzled out. You could take them and argue that in this league, whatever happened to them wouldn't happen and they would become great.

There are enough players like that so taking Bynum this early is just LOL bad.

D
Bynum isn't a great example but how many players have made an all-nba team / starter AS team at really young ages and have fizzled without injury (kemp I guess is a decent example and the guy traded for him)? I doubt it's really that many. There aren't that many statistical anomaly years for most players, the seasons are so long and players are pretty much as good as they can really get pretty quickly in the NBA.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:22 PM   #3260
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think there's only like 25-30 active players that have been drafted. My point was that size is a premium, and Bynum has shown flashes of being pretty good (not saying he's going to be), which is really, really rare for a 7 footer. I think the Bynum pick was early, yes, but saying he possibly shouldnt be drafted is borderline insane. I was fully expecting him to go round 3.
There are a still a laundry list of quality big men (AS level and All-nba level) that are available that should probally go above him. IDK, I honestly like some young builder type players myself and I know Bynum in the NBA today is a valuable commodity, just don't know if his value was that high here especially with some good 7+ footers on the board.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:25 PM   #3261
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

With Bynum you're asking everyone to assume he's going to recover 100% and then @ age 24, roll of at least 5 years of 20/10 ball. Or you could take Nance, who at age 24-28 DID average 20/8 and 2 blocks. Taking Bynum there is just asking too much and shows a lack of NBA history knowledge.

D
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:28 PM   #3262
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

OK, I admit I exaggerated with "shouldnt be taken." He should be a late round selection. The pick is still LOL bad though.

D
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:29 PM   #3263
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by D104 View Post
With Bynum you're asking everyone to assume he's going to recover 100% and then @ age 24, roll of at least 5 years of 20/10 ball. Or you could take Nance, who at age 24-28 DID average 20/8 and 2 blocks. Taking Bynum there is just asking too much and shows a lack of NBA history knowledge.

D
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:31 PM   #3264
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
There are a still a laundry list of quality big men (AS level and All-nba level) that are available that should probally go above him. IDK, I honestly like some young builder type players myself and I know Bynum in the NBA today is a valuable commodity, just don't know if his value was that high here especially with some good 7+ footers on the board.
Wholeheartedly agree.

My point that I made earlier (I guess which was unclear) was that he would get drafted in the first round of only active players today. When you increase the depth 3x-4x like we've done , size is definitely, definitely not as much of a premium that it is now.

In other news, I want to pick.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:35 PM   #3265
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

LOL bobbo. I didn't mean to get all old-man angry there (Im not even that old), but I really hate the pick (duh)

D

Last edited by D104; 05-16-2008 at 05:36 PM. Reason: I just really looked at that pic. Vomit. Is that real?
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:37 PM   #3266
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

that's the most gruesome pic of all time

in other news i figured out how i could wire my computer so i can lie in bed while 2p2ing. this is awesome
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:39 PM   #3267
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

boy you're learning all sorts of things today tbach
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:44 PM   #3268
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
With Bynum you're asking everyone to assume he's going to recover 100% and then @ age 24, roll of at least 5 years of 20/10 ball. Or you could take Nance, who at age 24-28 DID average 20/8 and 2 blocks. Taking Bynum there is just asking too much and shows a lack of NBA history knowledge.

D
I agree with the injury risk, but you are vastly underrating Bynum.

64% FG (Nance about 57% over your span), with just under half of those being dunks.

Already 10 boards and 2 blocks per game, despite not averaging full starters minutes. This is not a usage/efficiency curve issue. He was playing full minutes when he got injured, but he started the season behind KwameLOL on the depth chart. His performance actually got better as his minutes went up.

The Lakers this year were one of the fastest teams in the league, and thus a good 10 possessions/game SLOWER than Nance's PHX teams.

If Bynum is only putting up 20/8/2 at age 24, it will be a giant disappointment, and that's in spite of the 10% pace handicap.

If his knee fully heals, he will be the 2nd best bigman in the NBA for the next 10 years, and maybe even the best, depending on how age affects both guys. He has a better around-the-basket post game than DH already, but DH overcomes that with athleticism (when Bynum went down, he was 2nd in the league in dunks and 3rd wasn't even close. It was similarly not even close between DH and Bynum.)

Awesome pick, Nopairparker. I approve whole-heartedly!
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:48 PM   #3269
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
If Bynum is only putting up 20/8/2 at age 24, it will be a giant disappointment
uh, no.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:50 PM   #3270
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

kbfc, you conveniently ignore the obvious downside. his health. he's really tall. he relies on athleticism. do you see how it's an even greater risk for someone like him?

the type of player that relies least on athleticism is a 3pt specialist/pure shooter type. basically, the opposite of an in-the-trenches defensive anchor.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:52 PM   #3271
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i can't wait until next season when bynum is averaging like 30/15/4 and dwade is averaging like 35 a game, the heat and the lakers are both like undefeated at the all-star break and nopair is hailed as a genius, links this thread to nba execs and ends up landing the GM job with the knicks and they end up winning 15 straight championships. oh man you guys are all gonna feel like such pricks.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:54 PM   #3272
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

"I just really looked at that pic. Vomit. Is that real?"

ldo - its on the internet isn't it?

omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgom gomgomgomgomgogmomgomgoogmogmomgomgomgomgomgogm i get to pick soon omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgogmog momgomg
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:55 PM   #3273
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by xorbie View Post
uh, no.
uh, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
kbfc, you conveniently ignore the obvious downside. his health. he's really tall. he relies on athleticism. do you see how it's an even greater risk for someone like him?

the type of player that relies least on athleticism is a 3pt specialist/pure shooter type. basically, the opposite of an in-the-trenches defensive anchor.
I didn't ignore that. I think I wore the grooves off the 'i' and 'f' keys on my keyboard prefacing every clause with "if".
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:56 PM   #3274
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I agree with the injury risk, but you are vastly underrating Bynum.

64% FG (Nance about 57% over your span), with just under half of those being dunks.

Already 10 boards and 2 blocks per game, despite not averaging full starters minutes. This is not a usage/efficiency curve issue. He was playing full minutes when he got injured, but he started the season behind KwameLOL on the depth chart. His performance actually got better as his minutes went up.

The Lakers this year were one of the fastest teams in the league, and thus a good 10 possessions/game SLOWER than Nance's PHX teams.

If Bynum is only putting up 20/8/2 at age 24, it will be a giant disappointment, and that's in spite of the 10% pace handicap.

If his knee fully heals, he will be the 2nd best bigman in the NBA for the next 10 years, and maybe even the best, depending on how age affects both guys. He has a better around-the-basket post game than DH already, but DH overcomes that with athleticism (when Bynum went down, he was 2nd in the league in dunks and 3rd wasn't even close. It was similarly not even close between DH and Bynum.)

Awesome pick, Nopairparker. I approve whole-heartedly!
What's your definition of big man?

You do realize Amare, Howard, Bosh, another youn guy on a bad team, Brand are still relatively young on top of Oden. I'd rather have that other young guy than Bynum.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:59 PM   #3275
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

here's the thing. i think you're right about bynum's upside. very few have the capabilities that he has. "potential". that said, where he was, what he will be, what he can be - he'll fall somewhere within the triangle.

he has a long way to go, and his injury riddled past (and present) is not a good way to get there. i think you're overrating him in terms of bigmen, since I feel Dwight is for sure a step above (and not that close) and Amare/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Last edited by ClarkNasty; 05-16-2008 at 06:30 PM.
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