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Old 05-16-2008, 02:51 AM   #3101
HighStakesPro
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by SammyKid11 View Post
When we get done with the draft, I would like for you to please list for me all the guys available in Round 9 who would "give you exactly what Carmelo gives you." Dramatic overstatement for the win imo.
I agree. It's unlikely that you could get anyone as good as Carmelo later than the 6th round.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:54 AM   #3102
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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There are literally millions
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Originally Posted by SammyKid11 View Post
Dramatic overstatement for the win imo.
wrong. LITERALLY MILLIONS

Last edited by kidcolin; 05-16-2008 at 02:54 AM. Reason: hsp ftw imo
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:56 AM   #3103
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Sammy,

Melo is the most underrated player on this board.

Especially by KC and Bobbo.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:57 AM   #3104
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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On a scale of 1-10, how angry would you be if I went coach Larry in Round 8 and your girlfriend in 9?
assuming you mean who I think you mean, lol @ my girlfriend being available in round 9.

Heads will roll if Larry Squared is broken up. I'll also danza slap anyone dumb enough to pick a coach before round 9.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:57 AM   #3105
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

chim,

admitted Melo hater, but I think even you'd agree this is too high a slot for him AND it's a bad pairing. It's a double whammy.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:59 AM   #3106
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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chim,

admitted Melo hater, but I think even you'd agree this is too high a slot for him AND it's a bad pairing. It's a double whammy.
I think Melo should go before too long with a particular mold.

Of course the Yao pairing is questionable but the dude has plenty of picks left.. who cares if it pigeon holes him if he has a solid plan to round it out?
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:00 AM   #3107
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Let me agree, though, that the criticisms with the offense through Yao and Melo is relevant.

The outrage at his skillset being picked in this area of the draft is a little silly imo.

edit: To expand.. I wouldn't pick Melo here. But it isn't omgawful like you guys are implying.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:04 AM   #3108
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think people are hating on Melo too much. I actually agree that it's not a good pairing, but Melo himself is fine. If he learned never to take 3s, I think he would be a borderline late 1st rounder. It's fashionable to say that offense is easy to find, but not that many guys can put up really high bulk scoring with good efficiency. Plus, who else can make sure that your team doesn't have any snitches?
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:08 AM   #3109
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also its not like Melo takes threes just because he loves doing it.

It's that Karl's offense has designed to hand the ball to Melo and everyone watch him do his thing (or play B, which is AI dribble for 20 seconds and shoot a fader).

Melo is a nasty offensive player who in a decent system with talent around him would only be better.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:10 AM   #3110
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

chim - who cares more about the nuggets, you or carmelo?

it's the same question victor posed to me, but replace jazz / boozer. it rang true.

he DOES NOT CARE.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:13 AM   #3111
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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chim - who cares more about the nuggets, you or carmelo?

it's the same question victor posed to me, but replace jazz / boozer. it rang true.

he DOES NOT CARE.
meh,

He did care. I agree he doesn't now. There is a lot of problems at play with Denver.

However, look at this format and compare it to USA basketball. Lots of talent, good coach, exciting situation.. and Melo was sick.

It isn't a character flaw that Melo "doesn't care" and I feel the USA example shows that. The Denver situation is bad for a lot more reasons than Melo not caring.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:17 AM   #3112
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The more I think about it the more Melo is good "for this format" (everyone seems to be throwing this around.

Has gotten better going into his 24th year and this whole thing resembles the USA ball situation.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:41 AM   #3113
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i think 'melo and yao work pretty well together, don't understand all the hate. can't name names, but there are several people who should be available in the next few rounds that would work really well with this squad.

a good wing defender & a pass first pg who can both stretch the floor would fit really well with this team. melo isn't the best defender but he is a big body and he's athletic, all you need is a coach that can get him to move his guys toward the help defense and have yao clog up the lane.

also i feel like yao/melo dont really complement one another offensively, but it's still two guys that you really have to double down on, and even if they don't pass THAT well out of double teams, you are still going to end up with a 1v1 match up where someone on your team has a big advantage. or an open guy for 3.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:45 AM   #3114
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Good pick but terrible pairing. The past picks have been guys who compliment the other guy, I am not seeing it with Reggie. Rodman doesn't command double teams (nor does he even command a defender, only a boxer-outter) so it doesn't free Reggie up for shots, and Reggie isn't the high volume shooter enough that you can get low usage guys as spare parts. Further, if you run a jumpshooting offense (which with Reggie as your #1 looks like you're locked into it) there are few around the rim boards for Rodman to clean up (whereas if you ran a PNR alot or if you had a penetrator, weakside and help defense constantly needs to rotate, which would free Rodman to do heavy damage in the interior).

So, on the surface, I'll say this is an example of a very good pick but a very bad pairing...

I like the pick. It isn't a two on two game it's 5 on 5. Just look at it this way. Did Reggie ever have a power forward that demanded double teams? No he didn't and he turned out just fine. Why are you guys saying you don't like the pairing it's two guys out of five and two guys that really don't have anything to do with eachother. Now if he had picked two volume shooting guards or a power forward that doesn't rebound well along with a center and small forward that doesn't rebound well either then I can see your point but I really don't see how having Rodman on a team with Reggie Miller is bad or how they are going to even effect each other offensively.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:50 AM   #3115
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

OMG BEN WALLACE PICK SO BAD!!!!
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:51 AM   #3116
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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i think 'melo and yao work pretty well together, don't understand all the hate. ...

also i feel like yao/melo dont really complement one another offensively,
so, they work well together but they dont complement each other? huh?

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I like the pick. It isn't a two on two game it's 5 on 5. Just look at it this way. Did Reggie ever have a power forward that demanded double teams? No he didn't and he turned out just fine.
actually, he did. i cant name names, but he did.

Quote:
Why are you guys saying you don't like the pairing it's two guys out of five and two guys that really don't have anything to do with eachother. Now if he had picked two volume shooting guards or a power forward that doesn't rebound well along with a center and small forward that doesn't rebound well either then I can see your point but I really don't see how having Rodman on a team with Reggie Miller is bad or how they are going to even effect each other offensively.
again, all talk about teams based on 2 players is obvious speculation so it's irrelevant. but, on the surface, it seems like a bad match. can it work? Yes.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:08 AM   #3117
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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so, they work well together but they dont complement each other? huh?
i mean, i don't expect yao and melo to work a 1-2 game a lot. neither is a great passer, both are primarily looking to score, so it's not like they complement each other. however, they both demand double teams with the ball and they can both crash the rim when the other does have the ball and takes a defender 1v1. neither has great range for their position but both have a good shot from close in, so its not like you can ever ignore either, and you still have plenty of time in this draft to pick up some good shooters/defenders/distributors. honestly not understanding the hate.
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:18 AM   #3118
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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searched shawn kemp and found these sneaks circa 1994. i totally remember kids wearing them.

THE KAMIKAZE II's!!!!!

i had like 3 pairs of those back in the day

the original kamikazes were sweeter though
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:25 AM   #3119
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

If anyone has watched the US team in the last couple of years then the Melo pick makes perfect sense. He has excelled playing around other great players when they are actually coached. Karl just has no control over his team.
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:19 AM   #3120
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I like both picks. The Big Ben one for obvious reasons (see Gilbert and Deke). But the Melo one is great. This is the part of the draft where some statheads might get left behind IMO because if you don't see Melo and Yao working awesomely together, well then...you're wrong.
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:38 AM   #3121
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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This is the part of the draft where some statheads might get left behind IMO because if you don't see Melo and Yao working awesomely together, well then...you're wrong.
I was unsure at first, but this in depth argument really convinced me to see things your way.
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:45 AM   #3122
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I agree, Rodman > Dikembe.

Last edited by xxThe_Lebowskixx; 05-16-2008 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:02 AM   #3123
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'll chime in on Melo since I feel that some of the analysis is a bit off.

I think the general consensus is that Melo is a poor passer, but that's simply not true. He's great on the break, and very good at finding the cutter. He had a great PnR working with Nene in 06-07, but that went away as soon as Nene did. As far as long range shooting is concerned, it's not like he hasn't been improving in that category. His low/mid post game is a bit overrated, but I think that could be related to the lack of threats around him. He's not as efficient down there as he is facing up, and why Karl had him primarily work out of the post simply baffles me. He hasn't shown a that he can make accurate weak side passes to the open shooter from down low, but this is largely due to the fact that the Nuggs don't have any shooters.

I think he may have went a tad high, and to be honest I'm not sure of the pairing with Yao, but I do think the hate is a little fierce. We have to remember that the majority of Carmelo's minutes were with KMart, AI, Marcus, and AC. All told, those guys are probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% on wide open jumpshots, so the majority of Melo's work had to be done against defenses that sagged towards him. Nobody in that lineup could really finish, so it's no wonder their starting offense had problems in the half court. With a still below-average bench of JR, Linas, and Najera, Melo was much more efficient.

Offensively I guess it could work well with Yao and the right supporting cast, but I'm really worried about these two defensively. Melo is an underrated 1v1 defender (meaning he's average to slightly below), but he can be an absolutely deplorable team defender. With a slow big man, I could see them really struggling on rotations.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:00 PM   #3124
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

international ball = short 3 point line for carmelo
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:25 PM   #3125
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

to be fair, melo did improve his 3pt shooting this year. he had a monster 2nd half in that regard: 23/56. He had a. 591 ts %
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