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Old 05-15-2008, 11:28 PM   #2976
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
zero O is so bad for starters. Rodman and Ben are special exceptions, but Rodman gave you considerably more offense than Ben.
If you can build a team with a bunch of high volume/shooters scorers I guess it could work. Then again AI and another big scorer, didn't work well at all.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:28 PM   #2977
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Im now thinking of a player who could've been taken over Ben Wallace if you wanted to strongly emphasize defense and he's vastly superior to Ben overall.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:29 PM   #2978
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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It's called a gamble. Any player current in the first couple of years and picked is a gamble.
Of course, it's a gamble, and that's fine. What I am arguing is that it is lower EV gamble than most people realize. Chances of Deron declining slightly or running into injury problems are slightly greater than the chances of him maintaing current level of production for 7-8 years, and the chances of him maintaining are much greater than the chances of him improving greatly and hanging on to those improvement for several years. And if Deron just maintains his current level of production, he is a pretty good player, but not an "OMG I can't believe he lasted this late in the draft player." A 20 PER PG with crappy defense is certainly a useful player, and good value here, but I donn't understand the "he's been BPA for 5-10 picks" comments.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:31 PM   #2979
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Of course, it's a gamble, and that's fine. What I am arguing is that it is lower EV gamble than most people realize. Chances of Deron declining slightly or running into injury problems are slightly greater than the chances of him maintaing current level of production for 7-8 years, and the chances of him maintaining are much greater than the chances of him improving greatly and hanging on to those improvement for several years. And if Deron just maintains his current level of production, he is a pretty good player, but not an "OMG I can't believe he lasted this late in the draft player." A 20 PER PG with crappy defense is certainly a useful player, and good value here, but I donn't understand the "he's been BPA for 5-10 picks" comments.
Did you see who was picked in the last 10................not bad picks but not amazing ones either.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:31 PM   #2980
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Yea but if you think about it, if we had this draft immediately following the '06 Finals, Dwayne Wade would have gone right where Chris Paul went in this draft (if not closer to LeBron). The guy who picked D-Wade would argue to the death that Wade would never decline and keep saying "did you see the Finals?". Now in this draft (2 years later) he went 25th and he may wind up like the first amazing guard who ever played with Shaq...

Why can't D-Will, Chris Bosh, CP3, even LBJ wind up like Wade or worse?
I think the point is that Wade's last two years was the worst realistically possible scenario short of a career ending injury, compared to most players who became superstars at his age like Kobe, Lebron, Nowitzki, KG, and he still only dropped 15 spots.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:32 PM   #2981
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Did you see who was picked in the last 10................not bad picks but not amazing ones either.
Exactly. And that's how I see Deron. I don't think he is a reach here at all, I just don't think he is a steal either, which a lot of people are arguing.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:34 PM   #2982
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Im now thinking of a player who could've been taken over Ben Wallace if you wanted to strongly emphasize defense and he's vastly superior to Ben overall.
Is it animal, vegetable, or mineral?
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:34 PM   #2983
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

The point is though is everyone is taking it as fact that these young guys will continue with the same or better output for 7-10 more years, and thats just way to much value being given to them.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:34 PM   #2984
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

this has been a sick day of drafting. will more show up?
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:36 PM   #2985
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

someone pm sammykid or whatever his name is if you haven't already
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:37 PM   #2986
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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So many how many elite centers are there? I don't think there are that many, and in comparison to PF/Swing there aren't many at all.
There's enough of them in this draft that will kill him to make his pick a reach. Picking him here almost negates any chance of being one of the top tier teams.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:39 PM   #2987
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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There's enough of them in this draft that will kill him to make his pick a reach. Picking him here almost negates any chance of being one of the top tier teams.
agreed 100 percent on this.

The only reason I picked Billups so early is because what he does at his position is soooooooo rare.

There are many bigmen who are just as good, if not only slightly worse defenders than Ben Wallace. And they all give you more offense too, and not nearly as bad ft shooting.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:41 PM   #2988
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

No shock to Bobbo, I think either Paul is too high at 11, or Deron is steal of draft at 46 or whatever. I think its the former, but whatever.

Still willing to trade up.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:44 PM   #2989
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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zero O is so bad for starters. Rodman and Ben are special exceptions, but Rodman gave you considerably more offense than Ben.
Really?

Take another look at their career and prime stats, they're both mediocre. I think its odd that people like the Rodman pick so much, but don't like the Wallace pick at all. I prefer Wallace > Rodman. They're both there to defend and rebound. Wallace also blocked shots like crazy, Rodman not at all. They both were key role players on very good teams.

I think there are more capable scorers and shooters that I can add to build around a great defense and pg. When I add those scorers, Iverson will have a reduced shooting load, helping his %s imo.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:45 PM   #2990
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Decided to do my team logo yesterday, finished it today.


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Old 05-15-2008, 11:47 PM   #2991
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm not HUGE on the Rodman, mind you.

Rodman much better shooter and FT shooter. Rodman much better offensive rebounder. Rodman brings much more to the table offensively.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:48 PM   #2992
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Ben Wallace is A LOT better at being a help defender than at post defense. There are a good amount of guys in this draft who are better man to man post defenders than Wallace.
I don't really agree with that, obviously. There are some good defenders left, but nobody as strong as Ben. 10 straight good years, 6 of which were top notch.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:49 PM   #2993
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Sick Billups article for you all if you didn't like the pick.

http://www.insidehoops.com/billups-b...t-042507.shtml
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:53 PM   #2994
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Sick Billups article for you all if you didn't like the pick.

http://www.insidehoops.com/billups-b...t-042507.shtml
What exactly makes this a sick article? The fact the guy is gushing over Billups?

This is like the worst evidence backing up a pick ever.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:57 PM   #2995
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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What exactly makes this a sick article? The fact the guy is gushing over Billups?

This is like the worst evidence backing up a pick ever.
Well I obv already mentioned his d, just wanted to show off his clutch shooting as well.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:57 PM   #2996
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Paul 11 and Deron 44 or whatever is lol
Paul's better than Deron
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:58 PM   #2997
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I don't really agree with that, obviously. There are some good defenders left, but nobody as strong as Ben. 10 straight good years, 6 of which were top notch.
You could have gotten a much better player now that you couldn't have later on in the draft, and later on in the draft u could have gotten a player who was almost as good as Wallace.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:59 PM   #2998
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Paul's better than Deron
Not 30 something spots better.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:11 AM   #2999
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Not 30 something spots better.
People link Paul and Deron in their minds because they were drafted next to each other and play the same position. They are quite different beasts though:
Deron's PERs: 12.4, 17.1, 20.8
Paul's PERs: 22.1, 22.0, 28.3
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:12 AM   #3000
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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People link Paul and Deron in their minds because they were drafted next to each other and play the same position. They are quite different beasts though:
Deron's PERs: 12.4, 17.1, 20.8
Paul's PERs: 22.1, 22.0, 28.3
yea - but hes not 30 picks better~! lol

seriously sergsz - good point
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