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Old 05-15-2008, 10:49 PM   #2926
Shark Doctor
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Who you going with?

Also CP3 is sick but he's not 30+ picks better than Deron.
Why does that even matter?

I didnt want Stock...even though Stock had one of the best (most consistent) careers for any PG...this doesnt automatically put the Paul pick as a reach imo.

All of these players will be starting their careers all over, and I strongly believe CP3 was the most talented PG available.

Yea - Stock put up great numbers...but I think Paul is the better guy to start a franchise with....and its not just because Paul can use both his left and right hand when laying up. I dont know why I have to keep justifying this pick, check my initial explanation...but Paul is a one of a kind player...he creates plays like only a handful of players have been able to do (for himself and his teammates)...he is rediculously dangerous offensively and defensively.

Now - if the argument is whether we should opt for career stats over a young player who has yet to have over 4 years of service in the NBA...then I ask for why? (if anything - Paul should be an exception to this train of thought)

Ive seen people make the arguement that theres a good chance he will fall off the face of the planet like DWade has (btw - one off year doesnt equate to DWade being done)...but ask yourself this....how many players have had a season like Chris Pauls and totally vanished???...or even suffered a severe decline???? I guarantee there are (at least) 10 times as many players who have had this kindve season and have continued to have great careers then have actually vanish from super stardom. Basketball-reference all you want - I know you guys cant find it. And if your arguments are really about Chris Paul possibly playing the rest of his career at an avaerage or below avaerage level - than youre just trying to find an argument where there is none.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:50 PM   #2927
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Yeah, you're right. Players producing at their 23 y/o breakout season level for 7+ more seasons is definitely the norm..........
one of the crazy things about basketball is that it's players are probably the most consistent professional athletes statistically speaking. Yeah there are quite a few cases of guys who peak young and crash, but the ones that don't overwhelm the #s that do.

Deron is a great pick.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:50 PM   #2928
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Not being able to name players here is hard, but just remember that for every Isiah and every Kobe there's always a few who make a couple all-star teams/have a good playoff run and then lose their drive, get into drugs/alcohol, freak out about life, etc. I mean, LeBron seems to be a sure thing, but so was Grant Hill...
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:51 PM   #2929
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Why does that even matter?

I didnt want Stock...even though Stock had one of the best (most consistent) careers for any PG...this doesnt automatically put the Paul pick as a reach imo.

All of these players will be starting their careers all over, and I strongly believe CP3 was the most talented PG available.

Yea - Stock put up great numbers...but I think Paul is the better guy to start a franchise with....and its not just because Paul can use both his left and right hand when laying up. I dont know why I have to keep justifying this pick, check my initial explanation...but Paul is a one of a kind player...he creates plays like only a handful of players have been able to do (for himself and his teammates)...he is rediculously dangerous offensively and defensively.

Now - if the argument is whether we should opt for career stats over a young player who has yet to have over 4 years of service in the NBA...then I ask why?

Ive seen people make the arguement that theres a good chance he will fall off the face of the planet like DWade has (btw - one off year doesnt equate to DWade being done)...but ask yourself this....how many players have had a season like Chris Pauls and totally vanished???...or even suffered a severe decline???? I guarantee there are (at least) 5 times as many players who have had this kindve season and have continued to have great careers than actually vanish from super stardom. Basketball-reference all you want - I know you guys cant find it. And if your arguments are really about Chris Paul possibly playing the rest of his career at an avaerage or below avaerage level - than youre just trying to find an argument where there is none.
Um, were not pointing fingers at you, I'm just suprised Deron fell that far when he isn't that much worse than CP3.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:52 PM   #2930
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Round #2, Pick #50, Ben Wallace



With my second pick, I lock up the best defensive center of the decade. And perhaps not just C, maybe the best defender period of the 2000s. Ben Wallace was a cornerstone of the Pistons championship team & other great recent teams. He's a master of defending the post, blocking shots without fouling, and of course rebounding. He averaged over 11.3 boards & 2.2 blocks, leading the league once, and led the league in rebounds twice during a 6 season peak. Wallace managed all this despite being just 6' 9". He has incredible strength, toughness and intelligence in order to dominate in such a fashion.

Certainly not known for his scoring, a career avg of 6.5 ppg, its not really necessary when you lead the NBA in defensive rating for 3 straight years and defensive win shares for 5 straight. I think he makes a great complement to Iverson, as AI can gamble for steals all day knowing that Big Ben is clogging the lane.

Here are some of his many accomplished stats and awards:
Career averages of -
10.5 Rebounds
2.2 Blocks
1.3 Steals
94.2 defensive rating (3rd in NBA history)
19.3 rebound % (5th in NBA history)
91.5 win shares above avg
185.7 defensive win shares

4 time NBA Defensive Player of the Year (02,03,05,06)
4 time All-Star, lol not in 02, despite Def POTY
5 time All-Defensive 1st team
1 time All-Defensive 2nd team
3 time All NBA 2nd team
2 time All NBA 3rd team

Team fanmail so far: Allen Iverson, PG. Ben Wallace, C.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:52 PM   #2931
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Interesting team with Ben Wallace and AI, both pretty inefficient scorers.

But Wallace is a defensive beast and AI is one of the better PG defenders.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:53 PM   #2932
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ben WALLACE? are you ****ing serious? Wow. Iverson and Wallace...who's next Bonzi Wells?
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:53 PM   #2933
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Wait, you're saying Deron here is a bad pick because there are other guys around who have similar lines but faded into mystere? Uhh... There is only 1 guy who you could possibly name that plays the same position that could be EQUAL to Deron. but that's it. Deron is incredible
I think you would find more if you looked hard enough...
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:55 PM   #2934
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I think you would find more if you looked hard enough...
ive looked pretty, pretty, pretty hard. and deron isthe best.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:55 PM   #2935
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm meh on the Wallace pick. Obvious plus, his 27-31 peak defensively is absolutely sick. Cons: short peak and at an odd time period, got owned at times by the top Centers in the league aka Shaq, absolutely zero offensive game
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:56 PM   #2936
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
ive looked pretty, pretty, pretty hard. and deron isthe best.
only because you obv overrate deron

Last edited by MEb; 05-15-2008 at 10:56 PM. Reason: why am i trying to argue this with a jazz homer?
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:56 PM   #2937
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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btw I feel stupid asking this because I'm sure I"ve heard it pronounced a million times but right now for whatever reason I can't think of it.....is it pronounced Duh-Ron or Dare-Un?
Wait did he say "why would Jerrybring anything" or did he say "why would Jerry bringanything"? Do you see what I'm saying here? Did he emphasize the Jerry or the bring?
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:57 PM   #2938
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

don't like it. Absolutely hate offensive zeros.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:57 PM   #2939
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i hate to agree with HSP but god is wallace an awful pick
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:57 PM   #2940
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Surrounding AI with defensive specialists might be the way to go. At the very least, Ben Wallace was a very good player who couldn't play offense.

You WILL need to pick a couple of good defending 3 point shooters and perhaps a mobile PF. You can sacrifice some low post D at PF since Wallace is so good. however, here's some word of advice: try to get someone who can get to offensive boards, you're going to need all the second chances you can get with AI.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:57 PM   #2941
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

love deron/marion. dislike strongly ben wallace this early, although i agree he is a good pick for ai who is going to shoot a lot of floaters/layups that wallace can at least put back, and can also feed wallace the ball in the air.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:58 PM   #2942
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Iverson has spent a bulk of his career carrying mediocre teams, but was at his best with a great defensive center (Motumbo). I think Wallace plays to AI's strengths. Just because Ben doesn't score much, won't really hurt me.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:58 PM   #2943
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

not a fan of big ben.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:59 PM   #2944
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

man i just thought of one player who would really be a sick, sick, sick pick there with ai.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:00 PM   #2945
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

depends what else you do. iverson and ben wallace could definitely work with the right pieces. definitely need a lights out 3-pt shooter to complement those two.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:00 PM   #2946
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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man i just thought of one player who would really be a sick, sick, sick pick there with ai.
Eric Snow obv
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:01 PM   #2947
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

kevin ollie
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:01 PM   #2948
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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depends what else you do. iverson and ben wallace could definitely work with the right pieces. definitely need a lights out 3-pt shooter to complement those two.
Well I get 8 more picks, don't I?

I mean, offense is aplenty, imo, defense is not. Especially elite post defense. There ain't a lot of that to go around.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:01 PM   #2949
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Wait did he say "why would Jerrybring anything" or did he say "why would Jerry bringanything"? Do you see what I'm saying here? Did he emphasize the Jerry or the bring?
lol niiice
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:02 PM   #2950
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

There are so many scorers available in this type of league that it could be tough to win with a 0, but then again if you have AI and another big time scorer or 2, you might not have shots for Ben Wallace anyway.
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