Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-15-2008, 10:31 PM   #2901
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I think Deron was BPA a solid 5-10 picks ago. I have no ****ing clue why Epip traded up to get Billups instead of Deron. And he even knew Deron was better but tried to make some system BS argument
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:32 PM   #2902
DontRaisePlz
old hand
 
DontRaisePlz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: mountain dew machine
Posts: 1,565
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

applaud this pick, I was instantly thinking how great Deron Williams would be a 2nd rounder after the Billups pick. I was surprised that a premiere 10 APG true point guard would last this long, with even combo guard PGs being taken ahead of him.
DontRaisePlz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:32 PM   #2903
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
Deron is the best value pick of this round and it's not even close. He is also the guy I was debating taking over Billups.

I'm shocked he slipped this far.
Deron is actually about the point where picking young goes from defensable to borderline and almost bad. You're basically picking a guy who at age 23 has had one season that would put him at the level of being picked even in this vicinity, over players with much better track records. Is there a decent chance Deron will improve or at least stay at this level? yes. But there is also a decent chance that he could end up like a certain PG who had an even better season than Deron at age 23, but would prob get met by a lot of lols if he were drafted here.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:33 PM   #2904
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Deron was without a doubt the BPA here i think. kinda funny he's paired with shawn marion. going to be such a weird team.
I think Deron and Marion are pretty awesome fits for each other. Deron is basically a baby-Nash, right?
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:35 PM   #2905
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

God I can't wait to pick I'm gonna put you all to shame
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:36 PM   #2906
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Deron was the 2nd of the 3 players I"m targetting(Rodman and one other who is still there). Imo Deron is BY FAR the biggest value pick there of the entire draft. Absolutely can't believe so many passed on him. God a Deron/Duncan duo would've been awesome for me.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:36 PM   #2907
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Deron is actually about the point where picking young goes from defensable to borderline and almost bad. You're basically picking a guy who at age 23 has had one season that would put him at the level of being picked even in this vicinity, over players with much better track records. Is there a decent chance Deron will improve or at least stay at this level? yes. But there is also a decent chance that he could end up like a certain PG who had an even better season than Deron at age 23, but would prob get met by a lot of lols if he were drafted here.
The thing is most of the young guys picked in the first two rounds are truly freaks. If you get near or close to the last couple years production your going to have a very valuable commodity. So it's definitely more of a risk than the proven players, but the proven players you know pretty much exactly what your getting. Deron, CP3, Howard, LBJ are not your typical under 24s.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:38 PM   #2908
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
I think Deron and Marion are pretty awesome fits for each other. Deron is basically a baby-Nash, right?
I didn't say they were a bad fit-I said they were a weird fit.

Yeah, Deron can thread the needle. But his game isn't like Nash's game, only the numbers are. Nash is mainly finesse, Deron is physical/power passing. He overpowers point guards. He can guard SGs because he's so strong. When Deron gets in the lane, he doesn't bob and weave like Paul; he thunders in. He's an incredible shooter too.

Do you envision Deron running a PNR with Marion?
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:38 PM   #2909
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

blech, young is good to some extent, but as much as you guys overrate some of these young guys, there's going to be 5 Shaqs, 3 MJs, 4 Stocktons, and 8 Malones in the league in 5 years.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:38 PM   #2910
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Deron was the 2nd of the 3 players I"m targetting(Rodman and one other who is still there). Imo Deron is BY FAR the biggest value pick there of the entire draft. Absolutely can't believe so many passed on him. God a Deron/Duncan duo would've been awesome for me.
As would a Shaq/Deron
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:39 PM   #2911
BobboFitos
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BobboFitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 72,764
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Deron is actually about the point where picking young goes from defensable to borderline and almost bad. You're basically picking a guy who at age 23 has had one season that would put him at the level of being picked even in this vicinity, over players with much better track records. Is there a decent chance Deron will improve or at least stay at this level? yes. But there is also a decent chance that he could end up like a certain PG who had an even better season than Deron at age 23, but would prob get met by a lot of lols if he were drafted here.
Wait, you're saying Deron here is a bad pick because there are other guys around who have similar lines but faded into mystere? Uhh... There is only 1 guy who you could possibly name that plays the same position that could be EQUAL to Deron. but that's it. Deron is incredible
BobboFitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:39 PM   #2912
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
Deron is actually about the point where picking young goes from defensable to borderline and almost bad. You're basically picking a guy who at age 23 has had one season that would put him at the level of being picked even in this vicinity, over players with much better track records. Is there a decent chance Deron will improve or at least stay at this level? yes. But there is also a decent chance that he could end up like a certain PG who had an even better season than Deron at age 23, but would prob get met by a lot of lols if he were drafted here.
Age 21: 10.8 points, 4.5 assists, 50% TS%, 0.8 steals
Age 22: 16.2 points, 9.3 assists, 53.5% TS%, 1.0 steals
Age 23: 18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 59.5% TS%, 1.1 steals


He is CLEARLY only getting better. I have no clue who you are talking about, but he probably either was injury prone or wasn't improving at nearly the rate Deron is. Deron has only missed 4 games in 3 years.

I think he should've gone at least 10 picks ago, and I wouldn't have minded him at all even higher than that.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:40 PM   #2913
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Deron has had 2nd and 3rd in the league the last 2 yeras in assists. He's a mediocre defender and I guess it's why he fell. His TS% is pretty damn high. OWS high. Also 2nd team all nba in his 3rd year.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:41 PM   #2914
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
Wait, you're saying Deron here is a bad pick because there are other guys around who have similar lines but faded into mystere? Uhh... There is only 1 guy who you could possibly name that plays the same position that could be EQUAL to Deron. but that's it. Deron is incredible
You misunderstood my point. Also, without even looking there are X players at the same position that are clearly > Deron. Again, you are overreacting by a ton to one season just because that one season happens to have just happened.

Last edited by MEb; 05-15-2008 at 10:45 PM. Reason: too much info
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:42 PM   #2915
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
You misunderstood my point. Also, without even looking there are X players at the same position that are clearly > Deron. Again, you are overreacting by a ton to one season just because that one season happens to have just happened.
If your talking about the guys I think you are. I shouldn't say anything but I'm praying they fall to me. Please be quiet.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:43 PM   #2916
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

btw I feel stupid asking this because I'm sure I"ve heard it pronounced a million times but right now for whatever reason I can't think of it.....is it pronounced Duh-Ron or Dare-Un?
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:43 PM   #2917
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
His TS% is pretty damn high.
In one fricking season. Geez, I'm starting to think you guys have not been watching the NBA ever. Breakout seasons happen where players then come back to normal. It's not guaranteed, but a player who has a proven track record of seasons at or near the level of a young players one really good season are better picks than that young player.
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:43 PM   #2918
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
btw I feel stupid asking this because I'm sure I"ve heard it pronounced a million times but right now for whatever reason I can't think of it.....is it pronounced Duh-Ron or Dare-Un?
Darren

Lol reminds me of when LeRoy butler played in the NFL, and everyone pronounced it Lee-roy
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:45 PM   #2919
Assani Fisher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Assani Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 48,128
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
You misunderstood my point. Also, without even looking there are X players at the same position that are clearly > Deron. Again, you are overreacting by a ton to one season just because that one season happens to have just happened.
No we aren't overreacting because it just happened. We think that he is clearly trending upward and should at the very least be able to keep this production up for 7+ more years, and its more likely that he continues to improve upon it. Moreover, as I said, hes not injury prone at all.

Seems like you're scared of taking any chances. Theres a reason why, before they made them go to college, NBA GMs would take raw high school kids all the time even though they were big bust factors. Its because taking risks is what wins. With so many teams, you're not going to have a chance at a top team imo if you just draft safe and reliable picks.
Assani Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:47 PM   #2920
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
In one fricking season. Geez, I'm starting to think you guys have not been watching the NBA ever. Breakout seasons happen where players then come back to normal. It's not guaranteed, but a player who has a proven track record of seasons at or near the level of a young players one really good season are better picks than that young player.
He's been 2nd/3rd in assists his first two seasons. What makes you think he's going to drop so quickly? He is the leader of a really young team with a Coach who runs a system that suits a player like him (see Stockton) and has young players around him who should run the system well. Your right there are some retired played who I thought should have easily gone already but I don't think the gamble is that great. If he is near the guy I think were both thinking about, I would have probally taken him already but I can't blame someone for taking Deron. It's not very common for a player to be all-nba this young, and if you've watched NBA, PGs/Centers tend to stay at the top for a long time and make all-star teams and all-nba teams pretty regularly once they get in. I looked at all the all-nba players during this period, and the number of different PGs/C are by far the rarest.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:47 PM   #2921
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,788
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

damn, nice pick darko
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:47 PM   #2922
MEb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MEb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24,705
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
No we aren't overreacting because it just happened. We think that he is clearly trending upward and should at the very least be able to keep this production up for 7+ more years, and its more likely that he continues to improve upon it. Moreover, as I said, hes not injury prone at all.
Yeah, you're right. Players producing at their 23 y/o breakout season level for 7+ more seasons is definitely the norm..........
MEb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:48 PM   #2923
kidcolin
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kidcolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: thank god for the hatchery
Posts: 108,763
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm a dick who refuses to say "Darren"
kidcolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:48 PM   #2924
HighStakesPro
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,949
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
No we aren't overreacting because it just happened. We think that he is clearly trending upward and should at the very least be able to keep this production up for 7+ more years, and its more likely that he continues to improve upon it. Moreover, as I said, hes not injury prone at all.

Seems like you're scared of taking any chances. Theres a reason why, before they made them go to college, NBA GMs would take raw high school kids all the time even though they were big bust factors. Its because taking risks is what wins. With so many teams, you're not going to have a chance at a top team imo if you just draft safe and reliable picks.
The difference is, in the NBA you actually get to play those seasons out. In this format, it is basically an EV fest, because when the teams are ultimately judged a player like Deron will have to have the bust factor weighed against the superstar factor. You don't get one or the other, you get something in the middle. At least this is how I would judge it.
HighStakesPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:49 PM   #2925
Jack of Arcades
Jumbo Jack
 
Jack of Arcades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Bastion
Posts: 23,569
Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I like Deron, was really down on him last season but he blew me out of the water this year.

I think he'll be good for a while.
Jack of Arcades is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive