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Old 05-15-2008, 07:48 PM   #2851
sweetwater
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm surprised Kemp fell this far but I'll admit I'm not very familiar with stats like PER so not sure where he stacks up versus others taken before him who I thought he is better than.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:50 PM   #2852
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

he basically got fat and fell apart after the strike. Rather recently he wrote about getting back in the league and making the HoF, so maybe this pick has the potential to grow in value!
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:51 PM   #2853
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

2 things: 1. Remember the injury corollary. Just because a player gets injured IRL doesn't mean he won't get injured in this.
2. Yeah I pretty much said screw it past the 1st and 5th year tournaments.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:52 PM   #2854
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetwater View Post
I'm surprised Kemp fell this far but I'll admit I'm not very familiar with stats like PER so not sure where he stacks up versus others taken before him who I thought he is better than.
Also, just from my own personal stand point, I feel Kemp when he was good was as effective as any PF in the game besides Timmay. He had game like Amare on the offensive end and was no slouch on defense.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:54 PM   #2855
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yes but he (Hill) is much more likely to get injured in this than others picked in the 1st round. He also may get injured in years 1-5 instead of years 6-9.

Good value in the picks, good upside, lot of downside to though.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:56 PM   #2856
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Kemp gets you 6 years where he's probably one of the better guys at his position. The following guys taken before him will be better year-in, year-out though:

1. Duncan
2. KG
3. Dirk
4. Barkley
5. Dwight
6. McHale

Also guys like Amare, Brand, Gasol, Bosh, and Rodman have arguments for being better. Some of them are injury prone or young, though.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:32 PM   #2857
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack of Arcades View Post
Kemp gets you 6 years where he's probably one of the better guys at his position. The following guys taken before him will be better year-in, year-out though:

1. Duncan
2. KG
3. Dirk
4. Barkley
5. Dwight
6. McHale

Also guys like Amare, Brand, Gasol, Bosh, and Rodman have arguments for being better. Some of them are injury prone or young, though.

You may want to include Malone on that list.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:39 PM   #2858
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Heres a list of guards/SFs who have more All Defensive Teams than Dumars and are eligible for this draft:

Gary Payton
Scottie Pippen
Jason Kidd

and 3 players who havn't been drafted so I won't name them.
Assani, the difference between posting something like this and their actual names is trivial.

And there's actually more than 3 people eligible for this draft that have more All-Defensive team appearances than Dumars, btw.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:51 PM   #2859
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Chauncey's ability to get to the rim is very underrated. He is also very hard to stop in the post (assuming a PG is defending him) because of his size/strength. He is much more than just a spot up 3-point shooter offensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NozeCandy View Post
FWIW, the Pistons offense isn't based around him driving and creating since a lot of the talent of the team is pretty balanced. This may partly be because he isn't great at it, and he'll never be Nash or Paul in this area, it's worth considering.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:51 PM   #2860
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

This afternoon was awesome, momentum really died down lately. I'll be here, waiting on tdarko.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:06 PM   #2861
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by KLJ View Post
Assani, the difference between posting something like this and their actual names is trivial.

And there's actually more than 3 people eligible for this draft that have more All-Defensive team appearances than Dumars, btw.
Not guards and small forwards. Only those I listed.

I don't really see it as giving anything away though. For example "13 people have led the league in blocks during our era" is much different than me listing 13 players and wondering out loud when they should be taken. The former is a common stat that anybody could easily look up. Moreover it says nothing about when I think those players should be drafted. The bolded part is the key- I don't mind if you guys casually name a player. For example I didn't mind when someone wondered aloud how the Sonics lost to the Lakers in the playoffs and named the 3 best players on those teams. What I do mind is suggesting in any way that a certain player should "go soon" or "was a better fit at that pick" or anything like that even if you don't specifically name the player.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:06 PM   #2862
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by mjw0586 View Post
Chauncey's ability to get to the rim is very underrated. He is also very hard to stop in the post (assuming a PG is defending him) because of his size/strength. He is much more than just a spot up 3-point shooter offensively.
Ya that's why I picked Chancey, he does everything really well/great and has no weakness.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:11 PM   #2863
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Not guards and small forwards. Only those I listed.

I don't really see it as giving anything away though. For example "13 people have led the league in blocks during our era" is much different than me listing 13 players and wondering out loud when they should be taken. The former is a common stat that anybody could easily look up. Moreover it says nothing about when I think those players should be drafted. The bolded part is the key- I don't mind if you guys casually name a player. For example I didn't mind when someone wondered aloud how the Sonics lost to the Lakers in the playoffs and named the 3 best players on those teams. What I do mind is suggesting in any way that a certain player should "go soon" or "was a better fit at that pick" or anything like that even if you don't specifically name the player.
So is it OK to say stuff like "there are X players left with a PER above Y and Defensive rating above Z" (or whatever stats you want to use)?
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:11 PM   #2864
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I was thinking about my Arenas pick and compared him to some other star guards/wings who have been picked so far. The most impressive stat for Arenas in that he has had 3 straight seasons of 28+ Offensive Win Shares. As a point of comparison, this is the number of 28+ OWS seasons the following players have had in their entire careers:

Kobe - 4
Reggie Miller -2
Wade -1
T-MAC -1
Vince Carter -1
AI - 0
Drexler - 0
Pierce -0

Makes me feel better about my pick

Injuries are a concern, but as a #1 offensive option, he was the BPA.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:12 PM   #2865
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

btw....

Don't worry because hes not eligible for our draft, but I was looking up Adrian Dantley's stats. Can anyone give me some more info about him.In his prime he was putting up 30 points per game on over 56% shooting. Add in the fact that hes a career 82% FT shooter and those are insane efficiency number for a guard. Why is he not more highly regarded?
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:15 PM   #2866
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mano View Post
So is it OK to say stuff like "there are X players left with a PER above Y and Defensive rating above Z" (or whatever stats you want to use)?

This is a fine line here, but...


If you're trying to make a point about a player already drafted(like I was) and you want to use a stat like that then go ahead. And if there happen to be others in that group who havn't been drafted then just don't mention them by name.

But under no circumstances try to make a point, a statement, a question, or anything else where the main focus is someone who has not yet been drafted.


Just use good judgment...I think its pretty common sense on when someone is not trying to talk about an undrafted player and when someone is directly talking about an undrafted player like "I was also thinking of taking a big name PF here but I decided to pass" or "Man I can't believe this 20/10 guy is still on the board."
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:15 PM   #2867
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

LOL @ this part of Adrian Dantley's bio on nba.com:

Sometimes he intentionally allowed his first shot of the game to be blocked, and then, for the rest of the night, he used his patented head fake to burn his defender
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:23 PM   #2868
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Not guards and small forwards. Only those I listed.

I don't really see it as giving anything away though. For example "13 people have led the league in blocks during our era" is much different than me listing 13 players and wondering out loud when they should be taken. The former is a common stat that anybody could easily look up. Moreover it says nothing about when I think those players should be drafted. The bolded part is the key- I don't mind if you guys casually name a player. For example I didn't mind when someone wondered aloud how the Sonics lost to the Lakers in the playoffs and named the 3 best players on those teams. What I do mind is suggesting in any way that a certain player should "go soon" or "was a better fit at that pick" or anything like that even if you don't specifically name the player.
Oh, I know. All I said that the difference between posting their names and saying that there are 3 is trivial. It's up to whoever is in charge of the league (you) to determine. The reason why I had a problem with it is because there is an implied correlation between awards and how good a player is. So this might be akin to saying near the end of the first round: Scottie Pippen is [insert statement] than these other hall of famers, including the 2 not picked yet (Worthy, Dumars), which (probably unintended) would have affected public opinion.

The other 2 people eligible for this draft are Sloan and Dennis Johnson.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:23 PM   #2869
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

He's nicknamed Arian Antley for a reason, but I agree. He was sick and it took way too long to make the HOF.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:43 PM   #2870
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergsz View Post
I was thinking about my Arenas pick and compared him to some other star guards/wings who have been picked so far. The most impressive stat for Arenas in that he has had 3 straight seasons of 28+ Offensive Win Shares. As a point of comparison, this is the number of 28+ OWS seasons the following players have had in their entire careers:

Kobe - 4
Reggie Miller -2
Wade -1
T-MAC -1
Vince Carter -1
AI - 0
Drexler - 0
Pierce -0

Makes me feel better about my pick

Injuries are a concern, but as a #1 offensive option, he was the BPA.
This list has a glaring, glaring omission. Bleh, I wish I were picking; I would snap up who I'm thinking of right now so quickly.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:48 PM   #2871
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

where is tdarko? he normally posts a ton so it's weird he hasnt checked this
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:50 PM   #2872
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Moreover it says nothing about when I think those players should be drafted.
I think this isn't true when you also rave about other guys who were picked, i.e. "Rodman was one of my 3" and then state WHY he was one of your three. Your whole reason is to keep people thinking for themselves.. constantly saying you have certain guys with certain abilities available gets people curious. That's all I'm saying.

NozeCandy has me admittedly stumped.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:54 PM   #2873
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

1. No more, "where's tdarko" from 3-9 during the weekdays--I work during those hours and am not at a computer.

2. Rodman was my #1 choice and he was taken--I was going to take him and take a guaranteed sleeper PG in the 3rd, it was going to be so hawt. Sick D and the ability to push the ball. Oh well.

3. I am not trading.

4. I will have my pick up shortly.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:55 PM   #2874
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

:: gets all giddy ::
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:56 PM   #2875
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Also why say all that if you're not picking a PG? I think you're picking a PG.
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