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Old 05-15-2008, 10:11 AM   #2501
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

i would be willing to trade up right now or in the near future if my dude doesnt go.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:22 AM   #2502
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Hey guys,

Sorry KLJ,GKA and everyone else for slowing down the draft, I went to work around 8:30EST, and didn't have access to 2p2. I should have given my email out, but I'm an idiot. Anyway PaulP was the guy I wanted, coupled with another player whom I'm very high on but might have elicited some serious hate from the forum. Anywho.....

Peirce and Gasol - IMO not nearly enough love for this combo. I think PP was a steal where he went, incredibly versatile and efficient on the offensive end, and at worst a good defender on the other side of the court. We all know how spectacular Gasol has been offensively, and I'd say he's at least average defensively. Because of the unselfishness and versatility of these guys, GKA's team will be very easy to compliment with role players.

Chauncey - I'm more in Bobbo and Epi's camp that this was a perfect pick. He's incredibly efficient on the offensive end, makes big shots, and is a great defender. I don't think he'd be as effective in a faster paced scheme, but then again neither would McHale. As it stands, Epip has set himself up with two very efficient scorers who are excellent defenders, with both guys being able to create their own shots. I think that's a perfect fitting combo, better perhaps than the other choices. I'm not sold that Chauncey went early (I think 5 picks early at most), but in Epi's shoes he rightfully shouldn't have waited.

Don't know what to say about the others just yet.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:31 AM   #2503
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

huh, didnt u draft 9?
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:58 AM   #2504
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BiiiiigChips View Post
wrong.
He still definitely didn't have as strong an inside game as a guy like Shaq. I'd prefer Howard take 100% dunks honestly.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:59 AM   #2505
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

2 things I didn't know about Ray Allen that make me like the pick:

1. This past season, his shooting percentages were exactly at his career averages. His minutes and FGA were down, but that is obv a function of no longer being the #1 guy. He's really had great longevity and consistency.

2. He is #2 all time in made 3s, behind Reggie Miller.

D
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:10 AM   #2506
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Chauncey - I'm more in Bobbo and Epi's camp that this was a perfect pick. He's incredibly efficient on the offensive end, makes big shots, and is a great defender. I don't think he'd be as effective in a faster paced scheme, but then again neither would McHale. As it stands, Epip has set himself up with two very efficient scorers who are excellent defenders, with both guys being able to create their own shots. I think that's a perfect fitting combo, better perhaps than the other choices. I'm not sold that Chauncey went early (I think 5 picks early at most), but in Epi's shoes he rightfully shouldn't have waited.
I don't know if he's incredibly efficient. He's only efficient b/c he gets to the line so much. In comparison to Nash he's actually a pretty bad shooter but then again Nash might be the best shooter in the league. His TS% is very good but his real FG% isn't all that high. I guess that's not a great measure but I don't know if efficient is the right word for Chauncey but I guess since he puts up so many 3s his EFG% is pretty high. He gets to the free throw line 4.6 times per 11 shots which is pretty high for a PG. Kobe who most would say gets to the FT line alot is about the same % (40%).
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:19 AM   #2507
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Ray ALlen was sort of the reason I hated the Reggie pick. Talked with Clark about it.. he prefers Reggie due to team leader/clutchness. I think they're very similar either way you cut the cookie. Every young guy who has played with Ray has raved about his leadership qualities, btw.

He's also a solid example of why I'm not in love with DRtg. It's an extremely team-driven stat, as are win shares (though I think win shares does a better job with elite guys.. i.e. KG/LeBron still get strong WS #s despite being on bad/mediocre teams). Ray Allen's D has been better than advertised, at least for stretches this season. But still, he's usually the weak link out there defensively, yet his DRtg plummeted 10+ points.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:22 AM   #2508
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah, I agree that d rating and win shares are somewhat of a product of team strength. They are helpful, but don't tell the whole story by any means. That said, an extremely high rating in those is a sign of a great player.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:28 AM   #2509
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I'm looking to move up in the draft, if anyone wants to deal with me, I have picks 79, 119, 122.

note: I think the spreadsheet is messed up in round 5 (then 1 round off thereafter) still a good spreadsheet tho imo.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:07 PM   #2510
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Does BigCat know it's his turn?

Also, when it comes time for me to pick, I'll be willing to entertain offers so send me a PM if you're interested (I pick in like 4-5)
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:11 PM   #2511
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Does BigCat know it's his turn?
I did PM him.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:28 PM   #2512
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

trading is turning into gayballs.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:29 PM   #2513
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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trading is turning into gayballs.
why?
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:31 PM   #2514
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

because for all the panties bunching that went on about the speed of this thing, trades will slow it down more than anything and given the size of the talent pool, they're very marginal.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:33 PM   #2515
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

Yeah, as much as I like some of the talent available, I'm sure in 30 picks I'll have some pretty awesome talent there too. And the cost to "move up" would not only be pretty high, but it'll just confuse everyone.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:33 PM   #2516
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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because for all the panties bunching that went on about the speed of this thing, trades will slow it down more than anything and given the size of the talent pool, they're very marginal.
good points, still i like trading as this whole thing is a big, long, very fun process. IMO the whole idea about trading picks will taper soon and people will be discussing trading players which shouldn't really slow us down.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:34 PM   #2517
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

BiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigChips,

It is lol that you think Worthy is better than Marion. Major lol. It is also funny how you pointed out a specific game as your evidence, huh? You could actually do that for any player, you could grab a mid level and point out his great game, what does that prove? We are using metrics to judge their body of work. I also am using the eye test and see Marion as a better player and a more versatile player. This isn't even close.

BTW, I am a big fan of Worthy.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:37 PM   #2518
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
I'm looking to move up in the draft, if anyone wants to deal with me, I have picks 79, 119, 122.

note: I think the spreadsheet is messed up in round 5 (then 1 round off thereafter) still a good spreadsheet tho imo.
Here is how reverse snake was defined in the vote thread.

Quote:
Reverse snake: It goes normal order for the first round, then reverse for the 2nd and 3rd rounds, then 4th and 5th will be normal order, and so on. 1221122112.
That's what the spreadsheet conforms to, if that definition is wrong, let me know.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:40 PM   #2519
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

ah ok. all good then
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:25 PM   #2520
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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BiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigChips,

It is lol that you think Worthy is better than Marion. Major lol. It is also funny how you pointed out a specific game as your evidence, huh? You could actually do that for any player, you could grab a mid level and point out his great game, what does that prove? We are using metrics to judge their body of work. I also am using the eye test and see Marion as a better player and a more versatile player. This isn't even close.

BTW, I am a big fan of Worthy.
Marion is definitely better than Worthy atleast to me although Marion plays more of a swing player role which I value less than a big man. Then again Worthy wasn't exactly a big man for the Lakers. Defensively Marion is very strong, offensively I don't think he can carry a team (there are guys picked after both who can) but I think it's definitely a guy you can build around although I'm not exactly sure how to build a championship contender around him unless he has a rediculous point guard like he's had with Nash, but then again that's the fun of this. Talentwise I think Marion is a good pick, building wise I'll definitely have to see.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:33 PM   #2521
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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Hey guys,

Chauncey - I'm more in Bobbo and Epi's camp that this was a perfect pick. He's incredibly efficient on the offensive end, makes big shots, and is a great defender. I don't think he'd be as effective in a faster paced scheme, but then again neither would McHale. As it stands, Epip has set himself up with two very efficient scorers who are excellent defenders, with both guys being able to create their own shots. I think that's a perfect fitting combo, better perhaps than the other choices. I'm not sold that Chauncey went early (I think 5 picks early at most), but in Epi's shoes he rightfully shouldn't have waited.

Don't know what to say about the others just yet.

agreed obv, there is only one other guy who I was considering that would have possibly been a better pick in this format. I don't think he would make my team better than Chancey would, but he is a better player, and I prob should have picked him strictly because of the fact people will underrate my team at the end because they either a) don't realize how good chancey is or b) don't realize how good chancey is in this format and don't understand the extreme importance of floor spacing/defense.

There only 2 PG's in this entire draft who can shoot lights out and play elite defense, yes only 2 where at sg/sf there are probably 40-50, and they are John Stockton and Chancey Billups. They were at a ridiculous premium, and that's why I reached and couldn't let someone else take Chancey.

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Old 05-15-2008, 01:43 PM   #2522
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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agreed obv, there is only one other guy who I was considering that would have possibly been a better pick in this format. I don't think he would make my team better than Chancey would, but he is a better player, and I prob should have picked him strictly because of the fact people will underrate my team at the end because they either a) don't realize how good chancey is or b) don't realize how good chancey is in this format and don't understand the extreme importance of floor spacing/defense.

There only 2 PG's in this entire draft who can shoot lights out and play elite defense, yes only two where at sg/sf there are probably 40-50, and they are John Stockton and Chancey Billups. They were at a ridiculous premium, and that's why I reached and couldn't let someone else take Chancey.
How do you figure shoot lights out? He's a near 40% career FG% player. I know he takes a lot of 3s and I know his TS% is great (and his FT/FGA is also really high) b/c his FT% is great but I don't think he's as great of a pure shooter as your making him out to be.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:46 PM   #2523
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

I really, really like Billups, but my only knock on him is he has a tendency for hero shots.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:46 PM   #2524
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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How do you figure shoot lights out? He's a near 40% career FG% player. I know he takes a lot of 3s and I know his TS% is great (and his FT/FGA is also really high) b/c his FT% is great but I don't think he's as great of a pure shooter as your making him out to be.
Very high 3pt percentage and very high ft percentage is what I define shooting lights out, since he will be feeding the ball to McHale most of the time and spacing the floor at the 3pt line. The ft percentage is for the end of the game, if it's a close game and we are up and they have to foul.

He won't be taking as many 2's in my system as he did in Detriot (and he didn't take many in Detriot to begin with).

The only time he will be shooting 2's is when he either cuts off the ball to the basket for a layup, or is creating his own shot off the dribble, which won't happen often as I will be running my offense through McHale "the surest 2 points in basketball history" in the post.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:50 PM   #2525
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Re: Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion

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I really, really like Billups, but my only knock on him is he has a tendency for hero shots.
We plan on putting a good coach in place who will teach team basketball, and tell him not to take hero shots.

We will also be working with McHale 4 hours a day on passing as well.
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