lol I never said it is automatically a bad thing, but I guarentee you each time any team runs the pick and roll (unless they have absolutly an amazing offense around Howard) it won't average out to whatever Howard's TS% is.

In other words, Howard's TS% > more than the pick and roll play so it's unfair to give Howard's TS% and ignore the overall effectiveness of the PG and roll play since it's not like Howard shoots the ball each time the play is run.

Anyway i'm going to bed, I will respond to your posts tomorrow Assani.

And sometimes the Timberwolves try to run a play for AJ and can't get him a shot(either because they denied ball entry or double teamed when it got there and forced a kick out) and that may result in a lower % shot.

Counting each FT as 1/2 of a shot, the Timberwolves are able to get Al 20.0 shots per game. The Magic are able to get Howard 17.4 shots per game. So basically theres 2 or 3 possession each game where Al is able to take a shot when the Magic would've had to have gone elsewhere due to Howard not being able to get a shot.

fair enough.


I think you misunderstood me. I listed 6 categories(ppg, rpg, apg, spg, bpg, TS%) and I said that Deng would never top 5/6 of his year 3 totals in any one year. In other words, I'm saying he won't improve. Now maybe you could argue that topping 4/6 would be an improvement, and I'd guess I'd agree there....but even still I"m not certain he'll do that. I especially don't see him touching the TS% one.


I agree with all of that; I just thought the "well my starting 5" argument was weak and you need to account for Martin in your analysis.

I said your team was above average but not elite.

I said that to me "elite" means top 3 or 4.


So why do you think that I think there are more than 3 or 4 teams better than yours? I havn't looked at the other rosters completely, so I don't know either way actually. Here I'll look now....

I think the following teams are better than you on D for sure:

Mine
Seadood
Clark
cowboy2579
sergsz


I think the following teams are probably better than yours on D, but I wouldn't argue too strongly for it and to be honest you could probably convince me otherwise with a solid argument:

Nicholasp27
capone0
van_exel_fan


Its the least important for 3 reasons:

1. Its not a post defense spot, which means its not vital for help defense against penetration(the main reason post defense is more important than perimeter defense).

2. There are more stud wing scorers that need to be guarded than stud PG scorers.

3. Good defensive wings like Bowen can switch onto star PGs like Bowen does with Nash and Paul at times. It doesn't work the other way around due to size issues.


They are important for sure, but they aren't nearly as important imo. I think post defense(both one-on-one and helpside) is the single most important aspect of winning basketball in fact.

mmbt0ne has a pretty interesting team btw and we havn't discussed his at all recently:

PG Nash
SG Ginobili
SF Christie
PF Mason
C Laettner(??)
6th: Childress
7th: Rogers


Any thoughts on this?

Oh yea, I forgot I wanted to ask this to spark some discussion:

Assume for a second that the rules are changed to: You get the player at any age and from that age forward you are guaranteed 10 years of full 82 games/season health. After that they can still continue to play but its not guaranteed. Obviously I'm most interested in seeing where guys like Hill, Penny, Moncrief rank now....so where would you rank these guys and the other injury prone guys under this rule?




And I'd still love to see someone rank the top 10 defensive big men. Off the top of my head I'd go:

1. Dikembe Mutombo
2. Tim Duncan
3. Ben Wallace
4. David Robinson
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Peja Stojakovic
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Dennis Rodman
9. Alonzo Mourning
10. Patrick Ewing



Thoughts on that?

too many white guys imo

i'd put peja in between rodman and mourning
other than that, good list

You're just mad that he killed your guard.

This is kinda strange, but Im currently of the opinion I'd rather not have any sort of ranking system. I'm just enjoying the draft and ranking 1-40 or 1-39 or 1-16 or whatever seems trivial. I do like seeing various teams H2H and seeing which one has the advantage and so forth though.

I'm going to "+1" this, because I think it's not even close D12 vs Big Al in terms of "better player," because Big Al is at best an average defender and likely a tiny bit below avg whereas D12 is an anchor. But offensively, it's close, but I think Big Al is the better piece on almost any conceivable offense.

Peja, lol, nice one.

No Shaq??

He killed mine.

I like DWesley as a pick. Benoit is one of those guys that look better on paper than their reputation.

Offensive players especially in the post are nice and I even think Big Al has a better offensive game ie moves. Thing is I don't mind that D12 doesn't have great post moves, I drafted him b/c he's good enough in the paint to score 20 ppg in the league at 22 but I loved him b/c he's a rebounding beast, doesn't get hurt atleast much so far, and plays excellent D. Defensively Big Al isn't even close to being with D12.

Offensive Moves, Big Al >>> D12
Scoring Big Al = D12
Efficiency D12 >>> Big Al
Rebounding D12 > Big Al but it's close, but TREB% and DREB% D12 is better.
D, D12 >>> Big Al
Shot Blocking D12 > Big Al
Non-Injuries, D12 >> Big Al
Getting to the Line, D12 >> Big Al
Free Throw Shooting Big Al >> D12
Not turning the ball over Big Al >> D12
Upside D12 >>> Big Al, I think D12 has a chance to be the dominant big man in the league, I think Big Al has a chance to be an excellent 20-10 guy the rest of his career but I don't think he'll ever be the top big man in the league with D12, Amare, Oden coming in etc and younger guys who will be coming into the league.

For my team D12 >>> Al, I have a guy who can run the PNR for D12, I need D in the middle, and I needed an efficient scorer.

This is a pretty good list. I'd take Peja and Drod off and bring in Shaq and Jermaine. Shaq's early defense gets pretty underrated, and DRod's as a big man is overratedl. His value comes from his rebounding, post defense, and wing defense, but he's not the typical big man defender.

Not sure what the D12 vs. Big Al argument is about, but what sticks out the times I've seen AJ play is that he's a woeful passer for being a post-up guy.

Mentioning Al Jefferson in the same sentence as Dwight Howard is just an insult to Dwight Howard.

Seadood-This and there are multiple responses to this.

Love the Benjamin pick. Almost took him instead of Curry.

Holy cherry picking. This is why people get upset with you.

Lewis TS%
20- 54.3%
21 - 58.7%
22 - 56.4%
23 - 53.7%
24 - 52.7%
25 - 57.1%
26 - 58.5%
27 - 58.7%
28 - 59.1%

So you basically take the worst season in his career and compare it to his best (and his best isn't much of an anomaly, similar to his 21yo season, and the first time there was actually an inside presense to help free him up).

Both are horrible passers. Don't get to watch much of either but I guess Big Al is considered a 4 and a 4 you want a guy who can pass out of the blocks while D12 is considered a 5 and is basically a blackhole once it gets to him, he's either scoring or turning the ball over. His assists numbers are horrible. That's 1 feature that Shaq is a lot better in than Dwight other than offensive moves which again Shaq is much better in.

for the record no one was doing this. i think capone took the statement the wrong way. people were comparing their OFFENSE, since overall D12 is a better player obviously AINEC.

Didn't take them the wrong way but I agree with the statements that Big Al has better post moves I just don't think he's that much better offensively in this league. I guess D12 is going to have problems scoring against some of the sicker defenders in this league, but guess what everyone is as well.

Jefferson is a pure post guy, he should be passing more. D12 gets the ball in a position to score, and I don't think their assist numbers can be compared that way.

Hey guys, just woke up, glad to see me and xorbie have taken over! Write-ups to come, likely this afternoon.

Looking over BigCat's team, we thought that it desperately needed 3 pt shooting and a big man. Benjamin seemed like the obvious choice for the big man, but we had options about the 3 pt shooting.

The team already had Worthy/Lewis/Stack at SF/SG, and Baron can play the two also, so taking another SG/SF seemed silly. It would have been nice if ONE of those guys could shoot the 3. We think that the teams best chance at success is to get out on the break as much as possible.

We concluded that getting someone that could run the point part time and shoot 3s was the priority. We liked what Wesley gave us in the steals/3s category, so he was the pick.

Between ages 24-30, Wesley gives us:

13.7 ppg, 37.8% on 3s, 5.7 apg, and 1.6 spg. I think for us, he will be similar in those respects to a Hornacek or T. Porter kind of player - good on D, can run the point, and shoot the 3. Obviously he's not as good as those guys, but they were taken a long time ago.

More to come,

D

Also, this is old Wesley, we are getting a much younger version that can make such shots


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvOm7dPS0Uw

Nice writeups, I concur. ^^^