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Originally Posted by horizon
This is not very convincing, as offense and defense seems to have very similar value according to this numbers.
Anyway, I've never said that defense was useless, simply that it was overrated because it is not more important than offense. .
You say that offense is more important than defense. I gave the stats of the champs over many seasons sample size that show otherwise. I never said it was a landslide, but all it had to be was equal to prove you wrong. Not only
was it not equal, but defense was ahead.
You also ignored my point about the Spurs/Pistons being constant title contenders while the Warriors/Suns are not. YOu also ignored my point about all of the great defensive teams this year being title contenders except the Rockets who lost their best player.
This all added up imo supports the notion that defense is more important even if one of the arguments on their own isn't convincing.
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A good defense allows you to compete, but then you need good offense to get over the hump.
I don't even understand what this means. Much like many of your statements, couldn't I just flip it around and say "a good offfense allows you to compete, but then you need a good defense to get over the hump"?
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Therefore I don't get why there is so much emphasis on defense.
Because I've shown your proofs of how defense is more important to build a title contending team. I've shown you the past champs and I've also looked at the top offensive/defensive teams in recent years.
All you've done is say things like "a great defense could never stop a great offense" or "A good defense allows you to compete, but then you need good offense to get over the hump" or "The purpose of defense in Basketball is to make it harder to score, not to prevent others from scoring, because you cannot do it" none of which really make any point whatsoever.
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My team is definitely not one of the best defensively, but since my defense is still good, I feel that I give up very little to the top defensive teams.
And teams that have good offenses give up very little to the top offensive teams. The Celtics were only a good offense this year- 9th in points per 100 possession. Yet they were fine. Again, I provide a real example while you just speculate.
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You're right about that, but the Bryant Bowen example is not fair, because Bowen really has a psychological edge on Kobe, but that's another subject.
Take any lockdown defender against Kobe then. Or take Bowen against any star scorer....the point is the same.
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Anyway, my thinking was more that a great offensive threat will often take advantage of his defender if there is no defensive help. And if you have a couple of players than can create those kind of mismatches on the fllor at the same time, any defense will be in trouble.
unless the defense has players whom don't need help like Bowen or the other elite defenders.
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The 90 points were not a meaningful number in my mind, but just a way of saying that defense won't probably be as efficient as good offense against elite teams.
Creating arbitrary numbers is fine. However you must remain consistent. Your logic was basically that no team in this draft could hold the top teams to 90 points and therefore they aren't as good as dominant on defense in our league as teh Spurs are in the real NBA. Thats BS though because the Spurs don't hold the top offenses to 90s points in the NBA.
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First off, Bowen is terrible on offense. His three point shooting is the only reason, POP can afford to have him on the floor, and considering that he the best wing defender of the last ten year that's really saying something.
I'm not saying hes great or even good, but hes better than Ben Wallace and some others that have gone before him imo. Hes also better on offense than many high draft picks are on defense, as he at least contributes something(3 point shooting) while some of these players are just nothings on D.
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It does not really space the floor as teams let him stand alone on the corner and don't bother guarding him.
And if they do that then Bruce Bowen will hit those 3 pointers at a career 39.1% rate which is the equivalent of hitting 58.65% of your shots if you only took 2 pointers. In other words, its a good % and teams will be hurt by leaving him alone and letting him shoot.
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I don't think he was a bad pick at all ( Dereck Fisher was next!), but I would not call him one of the steal of the draft. He's terrible on offense and that's someting to consider. There's a reason why the SPurs often have had trouble scoring in the past
You're 100% completely wrong here. You mistake the Spurs being a slow paced team and not putting up a lot of bulk points as them "having trouble scoring in the past." Since Bowen got to San Antonio they have ranked 9th, 7th, 15th, 8th, 10th, 5th, and 15th in points per 100 possession. Not great, but certainly not bad at all.