Modern Era NBA Build a Franchise Draft Discussion - Let's Get'er Done - Page 507 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

you're right, but neither are any statistics or awards.

its not like he's even getting any consideration. his career voting history for DPoY (usually about 15 players get votes per year):
1 third place vote (t13th in points) in 05-06 with MIA
1 third place vote (t10th in points) in 03-04 with MEM

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06-16-2008 , 01:44 AM

#12652

KLJ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by battschr

I'm just glad McHale and Posey didn't end up on the same team...they would have crushed everyone.

doesn't matter, bc ePeen has subtly been hinting that Bowen, Bell, and Posey are equivalent, so his team won't take the flak if the "good shooter/very good defender" argument fails

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06-16-2008 , 01:44 AM

#12653

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KLJ

Ok well who in the NBA would u consider a better defender than him right now at the SG/SF spot that I didn't name (Posey is obv stuck in an era where there are more than 4 elite defenders at the SG/SF spot who are all better than him so he will obv get less consideration than them)

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06-16-2008 , 01:55 AM

#12654

nath

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I like the Gill pick. I would have taken him if I couldn't get Francis.

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06-16-2008 , 01:55 AM

#12655

KLJ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

wing defenders
tier 1: Bowen, Bell, Battier, Kobe
tier 2: Prince, AK47, Artest, Pierce (i think his D has been pretty underrated over his career, but not elite)
tier 3 (a big jumble): Posey, Butler, Deng, Josh Howard, Iguodala, Gerald Wallace (some say Ginobili, Josh Smith, and a few undrafted players. prime KG would be in this tier, maybe the above one)

so 8 better, and 5-10ish equivalents

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06-16-2008 , 01:59 AM

#12656

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KLJ

Ok fair enough, this is my list

tier 1: Bowen, Bell, Battier, Kobe, Artest, Prince

tier 2: Pierce, AK47, Posey (I think Pierce/AK47 are slightly better than Posey but it isn't by much)

tier 3: Deng, Josh Howard, Iggy, Wallace

So ya our lists are very much alike and I would rate Bowen, Bell, Battier, Kobe, Artest, Prince, Pierce, and AK47 ahead of Posey (8 as well). I still think Posey is the worst of elite, regardless it's an obvious nitpick over the word elite, if you don't think hes elite you def have to admit hes in the top 10 and is def one of the best "non-elite" defenders at the SG/SF spot

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06-16-2008 , 02:03 AM

#12657

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KLJ

lebron imo

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06-16-2008 , 02:03 AM

#12658

KLJ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

I still think Posey is the worst of elite, regardless it's an obvious nitpick over the word elite, if you don't think hes elite you def have to admit hes in the top 10 and is def one of the best "non-elite" defenders at the SG/SF spot

if someone put a gun to my head, i would say he's the 15th best defender at the SG/SF spot. like i said though, he can be as high as 9 and as low as maybe 20. i think elite should be top 5ish, give or take. if this is a nitpick, fair enough. i'm a bit of a nit anyway

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06-16-2008 , 02:04 AM

#12659

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

lebron imo

Ya true I forgot about Lebron, dude has stepped up his d a ton i'd def put him in at least tier 3

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06-16-2008 , 02:04 AM

#12660

Victor

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i mean seriously, u guys overrate pierce at d so much its beyond rediculous.

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06-16-2008 , 02:06 AM

#12661

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KLJ

ok fair enough, I think there are a lot of close defenders to Posey (athlough I could never name 20 that could possibly be better at the SG/SF spot, more like at most 15) but I do think Posey is the 9th best defender in the NBA currently (although there isn't a huge difference between him and say the 14-15th best SG/SF defender.)

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06-16-2008 , 02:06 AM

#12662

KLJ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

lebron imo

oh, duh. im sure i missed others. i think he's tier 3, with a great likeliness of becoming tier 2, and that he easily has the tools to become tier 1

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06-16-2008 , 02:07 AM

#12663

kidcolin

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

i mean seriously, u guys overrate pierce at d so much its beyond rediculous.

err... no. Have you watched the playoffs, at all?

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06-16-2008 , 02:08 AM

#12664

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

i mean seriously, u guys overrate pierce at d so much its beyond rediculous.

No Pierce was amazing on D when he was younger and playing for Obrien, then he had to shoulder the offensive load even more (very similar to Kobe obv Kobe is better but it's the same situation type) and his d fell off, now that Pierce doesn't have to create/have the ball in his hands on every play he can focus more energy on D and has become that same defensive force he was as a young player (infact I think we missed out on Pierce's best defensive years because he was busy shouldering the entire offensive load and only got to see his great D during his younger years and now during the start of his older years)

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06-16-2008 , 02:09 AM

#12665

KLJ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

i mean seriously, u guys overrate pierce at d so much its beyond rediculous.

disagree, although i concede that i could be wrong.

my analysis of pierce is based on statistics (which say he's very, very good), playoff games (mostly recent because the celtics were pretty bad after antoine left), and a few regular season games/year.

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06-16-2008 , 02:10 AM

#12666

Franchise 60

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

So he is the 9th best wing defender right now (debatable), what is he of the past 30 years? He isn't even sniffing elite status in this draft.

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06-16-2008 , 02:11 AM

#12667

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Franchise 60

So he is the 9th best wing defender right now (debatable), what is he of the past 30 years? He isn't even sniffing elite status in this draft.

Again this is nitpicking the word elite, at worst you have to conceed he is a very good defender which is why I put very good/elite next to a bunch of those players as it could go either way.

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06-16-2008 , 02:12 AM

#12668

Victor

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a month ago pierce is not in these discussions for great defensive players.

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06-16-2008 , 02:12 AM

#12669

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

a month ago pierce is not in these discussions for great defensive players.

disagree, Pierce has played incredible D all year long, the playoffs did however cement that fact considering players are a lot of the times judged on what they do in the playoffs.

And you could also say the same thing about ur boy Lebron, he def was not in these discussions a year ago either.

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06-16-2008 , 02:24 AM

#12670

Victor

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disagree, Pierce has played incredible D all year long,

lol. ok dude. u really think pierce is consistently named with tayshaun, ak47 and artest at d? even at the end of this regular season u get laughed off the planet if u make this claim.

oh wow, he did well vs lebron and nows hes elite. thats it, 6 games vs lebron and hes top 10 d in the league. gimme a fckn break.

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06-16-2008 , 02:27 AM

#12671

Dudd

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It's not like the C's were far and away the best defensive team in the league this year or anything.

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06-16-2008 , 02:29 AM

#12672

Victor

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also, this is how lebron did against celts for his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...=&order_by=pts

seems kinda dumb to only look at last 7 games.

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06-16-2008 , 02:30 AM

#12673

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

With Prince/Artest no (that's why they are tier 1), with AK47 yes although I think AK47 is prob a little better (then again I also think AK47's defense is overrated just like someone like Josh Smith's is because they put up a bunch of steals/blocks on the stat sheet)

He did well vs Lebron/whoever he had to guard during the regular season/was an amazing defender when he was younger than fell off likley because he had to shoulder the entire offensive load on his team and doesn't even have as much endurance as Kobe does (someone who also fell off on D after having to shoulder the entire offensive load as well).

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06-16-2008 , 02:31 AM

#12674

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudd

It's not like the C's were far and away the best defensive team in the league this year or anything.

im not sure your point. are u saying its bc of pierce? or his teammates? all i know is the celts werent so great at d before. and lebron torched pp for years.

all im sayin is pp is not in the top 8 or wherever epeen is putting pp. im sure hes an excellent defender and esp when he wants to be. hes not on bowens level.

and he doesnt have to be.

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06-16-2008 , 02:34 AM

#12675

Victor

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dude lebron torched the celts until this playoff series. realize, im just arguing with u saying pp was some def force before this. obv he owned lbj this series but u simply cant say he was a lockdown def in his early yrs.

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