oh yeah, and basically the only thing on my mind right now is posey because that's what the last 200 posts have been about.

Exact opposite actually.

Will someone please tell me what we're arguing now, I've lost track.

hi bobbo.

(still tbach)

So I've decided that Clark's been bad lately. I feel bad about this because he used to post pretty well in this thread. In an effort to help him, I'm going to explain why he's wrong.


This is an attempt at sarcasm. What Clark is failing to see is that, while not the only two types of players, they are two of the most effective, especially when together. Focal points, guys with the ball in their hands, work more effectively with space. Guys that can knock down the deep ball either will provide space, or will knock down the deep ball.

I like this whole "dynamic" thing. I'm going to use Tony Allen, who won't be selected, as an example. When Pierce went down last season, he became the "focal point" of the Celtics offense, because he's a "dynamic" offensive player. So why won't he get selected? Because he's not efficient at what he does. It's pretty simple. With players who aren't primary options, you should be looking for players who will provide things besides bulk scoring.

This one is pretty obvious and I'm sure you already know the answer, but I'll take it on anyways. Jerry Stackhouse is better than Posey because he can carry a team. Posey is more valuable because he adds to a team that Stackhouse would detract from. Posey adds because he doesn't chuck up bad shots, doesn't turn the ball over a lot, plays good defense, and is a good teammate. Stackhouse detracts because he chucks up bad shots, turns the ball over, and doesn't play good defense.

Rodman wasn't better than a number of guys taken after him. That doesn't make it a bad pick. It's easy to build around Rodman because he does a couple things at an elite level, so in the future you can build around things he doesn't do well.

A mild attempt at humor by clark. Pretty standard for like half of his posts. Did anyone call Posey a stud? No. I even openly admit he's not as good as people taken after him, but he's more valuable to my team than anyone who was taken after him (and a wide number of players taken before).

Another attempt at humor by clark. All of those players, besides one, were taken top 2 rounds. Nobody is arguing you couldn't make a stacked team with players from the first two rounds. The argument is very simple: taking a guy like Posey is way better than Stackhouse (sorry to pick on Stack, but he works well for my example), because of what he adds and what he doesn't detract.

Nope, that belongs to kidcolin for his mark jackson impression.

Pattern.

Depends on your team. And if you don't realize this, then I'm surprised you were able to build your team that effectively (besides Mookie Blaylock). You're treating this like it's fantasy sports.

See what I mean?


Is this just what you think? Or is there something to substantiate this? You're better than that.

Posey is hated by Bulls fans because he owned Hinrich and Deng.



Clark, I hope my post helps you in your posting and your basketball knowledge. I hope there won't be a snide response, because that will mean my effort will be a waste.

This is the opposite of a quality post.

Smoke screen ftw, I obv knew there weren't 40-50 SG/SF elite defenders who also had very good 3pt shots, hence why I claimed there were in hopes many people pased on them, which it looks like seemed to work

No one is saying Bell/Battier are better shooters than Ray Allen/Michael Redd etc

Because I use logic that he can't shot the ball and plays SF therefore if you don't have a bigman who can play outside (most bigmen play inside) his off the ball offense will be more limited

When the heck did anyone say Rip could create for himself off the dribble?

qft

qft

qft

qft

Also it's really amazing to see how little people realize how big floor spacing is in the NBA, there is a reason why pretty much every NBA coach talks about it.

no.

Robertson was a 1/2 whoops, sorry about Nance did it really quickly.

What the **** do you know about quality posts?

good point.

How about instead of saying "Exact opposite actually" you should explain why you think that. You might actually contribute to the thread if you do.

haha sorry but I did already. I was in the thread contributing to the discussion that you are now currently catching up on.

Thanks though.

He is overrated because when he was picked it was a Celtics circle jerk in here with everyone gushing about how awesome Posey is. Then Clark and some others disagree, and now he is incredibly underrated? Give me a break.

I loved Posey even before he joined the Celtics.

I can see a case for taking Bowen/Bell over him (infact I would) but honestly is he that much worse than those 2? (I think those 2 easily should have went in the 5th round and possibly mid-late 4th)

ill do it for him.

capone0 listed best defensive wings as:
"Michael
Pippen
Prince
Battier
Bowen
Bell
AK47
Ron Ron
Christie
Eddie Jones

Kobe
Mckey
Pressey
Moncrief
Posey"

ePeen's list of elite defenders (currently in the NBA) is as follows:
"Bowen
Bell
Battier
Prince
Posey
Kobe (if he doesn't have to shoulder the offensive load a ton)
Pierce (same as Kobe)"

im going to assume Pierce is a homer pick (although his defense is very good, just not what i would call elite).

other than that, what does every one of the other players have in common? multiple all defensive selections. Battier only has one, but Posey has zero.

no offense, but is it a coincidence that two of Poseys biggest supporters are hudge celtics fans?

Okay, this is better, but I still disagree. If you think I picked Posey because of some Celtics circle jerk, you're kidding yourself. I picked him because he was the BPA for my team. And Clark and others who disagreed never really added anything substantial except to basically say "POSEY SUX!!!!!"

lol that was my list of NBA defenders in the NBA right now, I thought that was obvious, I guess it went over some peoples head kinda like how this same person said I said Billups was the 2nd best PG defender in the entire draft (lol) when I really said that Billups was the only elite defender/lights out shooter for a PG in this draft besides Stockton.

EDIT: and you can add Ron Artest to my list of elite defenders in the NBA RIGHT NOW (I forgot him ldo)

i knew this, and what does you clarifying it change about posey not fitting in that group?

my point was not that your list sucks (it was actually pretty decent). my point was that posey is obviously being overrated (rather than underrated, wtf?) because people are actually saying that he belongs on those two lists

I'm not saying you picked him because of a Celtics circle jerk, Im saying I think he is being overrated because of the large number of Celtics fans active in this thread.

I think people are also overrating the importance of picking role players over guys who were effective starters so that also goes into the Posey stuff.

And lastly, I don't think he is elite at either defending or shooting like some are claiming. But I think there is a big difference between good-very good and elite when dealing with a pool of players that spans over 30 years.

( this use to be the case, now with the way the game is officiated, I feel clueless about basketball )

There are many aspects of a basketball game, to have a winning team you need a good balance of everything. Scorers are valued a lot higher than they should be valued because that is the stat that the most casual fan notices first. In order for a certain player to score a certain about of points he needs his team to do the dirty work, the other aspects of the game. If paul pierce was running that same pick an roll with Kwame brown tonight there is no chance in hell he gets 38 points. The fact that the man setting the picks was garnett got Pierce a ton of scoring oppurtunities and yet garnett finishes the game with 13 points and pierce with 38. Does garnett get any credit for that in the stat sheet ? I already heard a bunch of members in the media saying how garnett had a terrible game after the 1st quarter. In order for that pick an roll to have worked all game long they needed shooters on the wings and posey is a better shooter than carmelo. Not only better shooter but a much better defender and team player so in the celtics case it is a no brainer for having posey over carmelo, and the results in the finals has proven the case for this particular scenario.

However the amount of scenarios in which you take posey or Carmelo is very few this is what makes Carmelo the much better ball player. IMO as long as I have even 1 eliter scorer on my team I will take posey over carmelo, I just think carmelo is such a cancer to a basketball team.

I think he does fit into that group (although hes the worst defender of the group)

All-NBA defensive teams aren't the end all be all.

woah, i thought gary was bobbo. now hes tbach. how does gary have 6600 posts? is he a pogger? is it a strat gimmick acct? such an enigma imo.

He started out as a gimmick acct trying to troll bobbo, but he turned into a legit MSNL poster. But I stacked him at 100 max yesterday WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (AQo >>>> JJ ALL DAY BABY)

I'm just glad McHale and Posey didn't end up on the same team...they would have crushed everyone.