Fisher is an excellent defender. He has excellent leadership skills and has great character. Given my roster I need a guy like this. Going by stats alone is not smart. If you have a starting lineup with all guys who score 20+ per game, someone is going to have to adjust to a lesser role, not be the go-to guy. This is a transition that many good players have difficulty doing. Look at the poor results of the US Basketball Team.

There are PGs left with pretty good numbers, but they don't have the same D or leadership. (my pick was going to be McMillan) Also, some of the PGs left have major issues (no D, size, character, etc.). Fisher has these and he also has championship experience and understanding of the game. The other guys do not.

Have you read the thread at all? When people talk about stats they don't mean ppg.

I mean he's really not a good PG and more of a combo guard. His ass% is really low for a pg. He's a marginal defender at best and his metrics show that. I could careless if he can score but if your looking for a passer there are better guys left imo, I agree you don't need a scorer, but I don't think you need what Derek Fisher brings as well. Just my opinion. Also with Dennis and Ron you don't really need to worry about D that much.

Your team consists of two really good scorers in Tripucka and Miller. 2 excellent defenders in Ron and Dennis, 1 of which steals well the other which rebounds the best in the draft imo and then you have Sam who is a decent but nothing special guy in the middle. Derek is a good player but I think there are better players for your team that would be pass first guys. Nobody on your team now is an above average passer.

Man I love seeing picks! PIX PIX PIX! When Cowboy picks I can make mine. I'm excited to give my thoughts, will read through everyone else's comments, but for now:

Sleepy Floyd
Awesome name for a player. For the record, your team is:
PG Floyd
SG Dumars
SF Howard
PF Webber
C Smits
w/ Blackman off the bench, I think. Right?

Sleepy was on my list but there were a few major problems with him. He's the prototypical tweener type "combo" guard. He's only 6'3 so plugging him at SG isn't great (esp. as his outside shot was less than average) and he wasn't a good enough to passer to play the PG spot (his A/T is a brutal ~2:1 career wise). SO... Not sure where he will find the mins. Also, he wasn't that good defensively - i wouldn't say "bad" but he had 1.2 spg vs 2.1 pf, but a 110 DRtg which isn't so solid. The main thing is he gets to the line and shoots a very high % (almost 5 a game per 36 @ 81.5%) which is nice.

In terms of fit, again, not sure if you have minutes for him. Just seems like a backup big made more sense, since Dumars can play a TON of minutes, but Smits cannot. (FWIW, for the efficiency nits amongst us, at 24 sleepy had a .514 TS and 24.6% usage - yuck! He shot a ton w/ below average success!)

Bruce Bowen
We all knew about him but no one wanted to mention him. I was hoping he'd fall for obvious reasons. That said, the big knock on him is he played 1 game as a 25 yr old (he sucked then) and then 61, 30, 69. He had an amazing streak of longevity (missed a game this year due to a suspension) so he's clearly very durable, it's just that it takes a while for him to get to THAT level.
I think at this point he's good value, and a 3-4-5 of Bowen/Ruland/Deke HAS to be the best defensive 3-4-5 in the league (right?) but the 24 yr old rule hurts him the most. Also, fwiw, Bowen barely shoots, but tends to make the most of that 3pt spot. Essentially, you get one of the best (if not THE best) defensive wingmen who can hit the open 3, is incredibly durable, and doesn't really do anything negative (ie. turnovers or fouls) but you dont GET this for a while. Will be interesting to see how people rule this.

Derek Fisher
I love him as a team guy. Everyone loves playing with him. A "clutch" player. I actually have a bunch of PGs that are better, but in the right system he's key. Not really a good passer, but a good shooter that on a team w/ a dominant 2 or 3 functions great as a running mate. Problem though - Van Exel's team is going to have trouble scoring. Looks like he's starting Derek/Miller in the backcourt and Artest, Rodman, Perkins in the frontcourt w/ Tripucka off the bench... Does show how valuable Tripucka is to this team, he's going to need that offense every game. Meh, I think this is a vanilla pick. Solid value, but there are better, and I don't love the fit.

Fisher's PER is low 12.6 including 9.6 at 25 years old. His TS% for his career is 51.6% which is slightly low but nothing special. His DRTG is average at best. Assist % is 19.1 which is really low for a point guard you could make a case it's b/c of the triangle but in Utah and Golden State it was also low. For a PG, A/36 is only 4.5, as I was saying there are better. You want a character guy then so be it. But you get him at 24, he won't have the championship experience then.

Yeah sorry I'm a complete idiot. I think of every player's worth as whether or not they had a high PPG.

wtf?

sergsz -

I now officially hate your team.

D

PS Die Bruce Bowen

That's interesting. This is an excellent example of a time when numbers don't properly quantify a player's value to a team.

So what's quantifying that he is a good player? That Kobe loves him or that he played last night? His stats really aren't that much better in the playoffs either. I just think he's pretty marginal. He isn't the anywhere near the 207th best player in the draft.

Depends how you define best players. I know who is available in this draft and Fisher is the guy that I wanted. Fisher has a high basketball IQ and I need a guy like him in my lineup. That's about it.

I don't think Price, Hardaway, and KJ are elite for this draft. People throw the word elite around way to much.

The Elite PG's in this imo are Magic, Stockton, CP3, Payton and maybe Kidd and Isiah.

I don't think think this is a knock on guys like Price, KJ, Deron, Chauncey. They just aren't on the top top level, still all good picks though.

Hard to disagree with this.

That said, if there is a player that was looked in isolation and you discounted intangibles, Fisher would be hurt the most. He performs well in every other checkbox:
Durability/longevity, "clutch factor," sportsmanship. That said, purely on a statistical value, he is certainly not the 207th best pick. (FWIW I wanted him as my backup PG... but I wanted him in 2 rounds, around ~300th mark)

I do agree people toss "elite" out too much, but, I don't see how you can say Kidd was "maybe" elite. Magic, Stock, CP3, the Glove, Kidd are your top 5. Isiah, Chauncey, etc. go next.

I hate being a pick apologist, but I think you guys underrate Fisher's intangibles. Also, I promise that anybody who is still picking based on BPA will not end up with a solid team. Stop trying to make me look like I made a foolish, hasty pick. It's not like I went to basketball-reference immediately after my pick and said, "****, I should have picked xxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx."

Yea thats fine. I'd prolly put it like this:

Elite tier 1: Magic, Stockton, CP3
Elite tier 2: Payton, Kidd, Isiah

And then I think there is a pretty solid gap between the next tier.

Are quantified this later but xorbie said complete PGs, there aren't that many complete PGs in the draft. I listed the top 15 picked, I just don't think Deron, Billups and a list of others are elite either they are incomplete. Magic isnt' complete but he's a guy I'd definitely put in my top 5 easy though. Completeness shouldn't mean a guy isn't elite or not. I agree that those are the elite PGs and the rest aren't that close. The Derons, KJ, etc. are in the next tier, I think there are only 5 or so elite level pgs as well.

I'm not sure I'd put CP3 over Payton yet. But yeah whatever, those guys have earned their dues as being elite!

And cowboy plzzz pick

I don't think Isiah is that elite imo, he's in the next tier for me and was picked, way, way too early. Kidd, Payton >>>> Isiah to me.

Nash > Isiah

Yea I just didn't feel like getting into the Stockton/CP3 debate lol. You could put just Magic and Stockton in their own tier and then CP3 with Glove at the top of the 2nd elite tier. But I'm biased so whatev.

Guys who have not displayed greatness over an extended period of time and have never played for a championship cannot be listed in the same tier as the greatest of all-time in every facet.

Elite tier 1: Magic, Stockton
Elite tier 2: Payton, Kidd, Isiah
tier 3: CP3, Nash, etc.

CP3 just had one of the sickest seasons ever for a PG, which definitely overrates him but at 22 which gives him a couple of extra seasons he is pretty damn sick.

CP3 is absolutely fantastic, and as he builds his resume he will move up in tiers.

We are talking about in this draft, how can he build his resume?