AC-Cobra and BigCat GO GO GO!!!

Josh Howard is a very very good pick this late in the draft.

Could AC-Cobra's team beat any of the championship teams since 1980?

I provided a detailed study which looked at championship teams. I do so subjectively(my choice for best player), objectively over the short term(Finals MVP) and objectively over the longer term(All Star over the course of the season). It was a pretty damn detailed post....

And your entire reponse is to list 7 great big men? Wtf does that prove? Yes, admit that there are 7(or more!!) great big men that have played the game. That doesn't change the fact that I just provided you with an entire essay's worth of information and facts that seem to disprove your point.

If you want to debate, thats fine. But come a little stronger than simply listing 7 players and not offering anything else.

Here I'll bump my post again. And you'll notice that I did indeed include Shaq, Duncan, McHale, and Hakeem(and any other big man that fits the criteria) on the list.

It's hard to say... there really isn't a lot of star power there though. Webber was a bit of a reach in the first and Dumars was a reach that early in the second. I don't know if you were asking because AC-Cobra's is the first team done and you just want to know if teams in this league will be able to compete in general with the historically great teams (most will not) or just saying AC Cobra has sort of a mediocre squad (which I think is the case, sorry ).

Imagine if the team was this:

Deron Williams
Rolando Blackman
Josh Howard
Elton Brand
Rick Smits

He could have had that, and that looks like a very, very strong team that easily could have won an NBA championship depending on the year. I think this was just a case of very good late round drafting that is somewhat ruined by mediocre at best 1/2 rounds. Rolando Blackman/Smits/Howard were all very very good value picks, and even as constructed his team is very efficient.

My point was that you're using ESPN/TNT analysts' opinions as proofs of your arguments. My point had absolutely nothing to do with debating McHale, yet somehow you turned it into another McHale debate, lol.

ya I agree, I made the point earlier in this thread where the first 3 rounds (especially first round) were by FAR the most important rounds in the draft, and if u messed up in either of these rounds it really hurts ur teams chances of winning drastically.

Give me a team who owned the first 3 rounds and messed up the last 7 over a team who messd up the first 3 rounds and owned the last 7 any day of the week.

Ok, and in the same way Pippen went #25 in this draft(and really should've gone 15-20) while Gasol went in the 2nd round. OMG JORDAN COULD NEVER WIN WITHOUT ANOTHER TOP 25 PLAYER BUT KOBE IS PROVING THIS YEAR THAT HE CAN!!!

Do you not see how this is faulty logic? When evaluating their situations, look at their entire teams including bench and coaching, then determine how good they had it. Don't just look at one other teamate.

Regardless, I'm not arguing Kobe>Jordan at all. I'm just saying that the 'OMG Shaq!" argument sucks.

I used it as a throw in comment, it was far from the "base" of my debate, it just helped solidify the fact that someone who played against him shared the same views I did.

When someone like u claims I used it as my main point, of course i'm going to respond, why the heck would I let u guys continue to put words into my mouth which has happened at least 20 times during this thread?

What if I said something that I claimed u said which wasn't true, would u just ignore that I said that? No you wouldn't, of course ur going to respond.

YEah Bibby's defense was a real killer for me when evaluating him. Its not just bad for this draft, its bad for the current NBA as well. With more starpower in this draft, its hard to have a poor defender on your team imo.

FWIW my first round pick was a coin flip between Webber and Brand, although I still like my Webber choice because of the great passing I get out of my frontcourt with him and slightly better defending.

Dumars was a bit of a reach but no trade offered at the time was to my liking and he was the player I wanted. I still like the fact that he can score and distribute and good levels and was a pretty great defender as well.

As I said in my writeup of the Smits pick, Ive always planned on my team being very versatile and although I dont pick for a while now I still think the four guys left to add to my rotation (as long as things go to plan) are really going to play major parts and make this team look great as a whole.

I think you guys are really really underestimating how good Chris Webber was. Do you not realize that Webber took Bibby, Christie, Peja, an old Vlade, and a few undrafted players to within one OT of winning the title(seeing as how the Lakers swept the Nets, I'm pretty sure the Kings would've been considerable favorites there)?

Webber>Brand imo for sure.

I will admit that he should've taken Deron, but I think about 15 drafters should've taken Deron, and Deron was one of the steals of the draft, so its unfair to single him out there.

I think he was in a bit of a tough draft spot and had poor luck overall with few steals falling to his spots.

AC,

I like your team, really. Very, very efficient, everyone can score and none have Melo syndrome of not being able to pass when they get the ball, and you actually have a very good passing team. However, I think teams will be able to pack it in a bit because you don't have a lot of 3pt shooters and none of your players are really stud 1on1 guys so given that you are going to need to have a very team oriented offense it sorta sucks not to be able to stretch the floor. Also your interior defense is mediocre, your wing defense is above average but not elite.

So your team does some things either above average or at an elite level, but the things you don't do well (shoot 3 pointers, interior defense) are things that I think hurt.

I know this sounds like a reversal of what I was saying with Wade/Monta btw, but I don't see that team as playing the same sort of ball that this team will (where the offense runs through a bunch of players rather than just 2 guards).

Assani,

Yeah looking over Webber's stats just now I think I underestimated him. However, I think some of his strengths are lost on this team because he lacks 3 point shooting which was abundant on those Kings teams, and having Webber kick it out to those guys was a major part of their success.

I think Webber is a little underrated here too, but not much better than Brand. Plus Webber is a pretty big injury risk. I love Deron, but are you saying he should have been top 25 overall?

I'm supposed to be impressed that Webber took a team of 5 players already drafted in this draft to a Western Conference Finals? Seriously that was a pretty sweet team there. Webber was def very good, but not because of that. Also Brand > Webber.

Considering his number one option is Chris Webber, I find it hard that this team will be very efficient.

bump for assani

No, Deron wen #49...I'm saying I would've taken him about 15 spots earlier. I like him over everyone drafted #37 or later except Pierce, Moncrief, and Kemp. And I probably like him over a few of the higher first round guys too. 15 was just an estimation I made without even looking at the draft board....basically I just see him as a steal. I could easily see him considered in the Payton/Kidd class when his career is done and look where they went.

Webber in his prime was better than brand in his prime. As a coach you have more options with webber, you can pretty much run any kind of offense with him being such a great passer, low post player, good range on his jumper. The only place brand is better is offensive rebounding and blocking shots. You can argue that webber could have been a better off rebounder as well if he kings didnt run their offense through him all the time, so he was either shooting or setting up the shooter most of the time so he wasnt in position for as many rebounds as brand was.

I'M NOT ARGUING MCHALE ANYMORE.

Webber's approx prime numbers: 25/10.5/4.5/1.7/1.5 on 54% TS

Brand's appox prime numbers: 19/9.0/2.5/2.0/0.9 on 56% TS


And no he didn't just reach the WCF. He took the Lakers to Game 7 overtime, and they would've been huge Finals favorites if they had won that. And none of his temates were high draft picks in this draft, and the highest one(Divac) wasn't in his prime anymore.

Brand is better offensively, more efficient, better rebounder, they're both great on defense, and webber is a better passer. It's close, but Brand > Webber.

I like how you just made up stats here, well done Assani. Why am I not surprised that you did this again?