I really want him to trade for Starbury somehow

I somewhat agree but I think that early on you have to draft for value a lot moreso than team building, so criticism is fair.

Its a lot of luck, but yeah this is basically what trading boils down to imo...you got a guy you wouldn't have gotten if you didn't trade, so well done...

assani

Artest

assani fisher

2/3 of your team has pretty much no one-on-one game. Now I do realize that by drafting an elite passing PG that is obviously going to help the guys without one-on-one games the most. But still you usually need someone to bail the team out when the offense runs poorly during a possession, and so far you just have Deron who is below average in this respect compared to the #1 option on other teams in this league.

I'll admit I'm interested in seeing your next two picks though.

Artest D>> Battier D

Battier is a really smart defender who is constantly in the right place and will never hurt you. Artest is a great defender who is physicially dominating.

rofl, i think he actually put me on ignore bc he thought i didnt respond to his post that i actually responded to.

I like his picks a lot because I think he targetted the toughest positions to find early(especially trying to find both good defense and efficient and somewhat bulk offense at these positions).

With that said, I think his one mistake was reaching on Rasheed. I like a guy like Laimbeer better and he went later on...another example of today's players being overrated in this draft imo.

I also would've loved pairing GP with Sidney Moncrief(although to be fair, since I think Moncrief was the steal of the draft I would've loved any pairing with him) and then getting Chandler and going with a PF later on.

Thorpe bring good value there, but again I have to ask someone to tell me more about his defense, as I don't remember it well. Numbers wise he blocks very few shots for a big man.

I understand that everyone gets a little defensive when people bash their picks, but....

I'm not arguing necessarily with the style you're playing. What I am arguing is that Battier or someone very similar will be available in the 4th round if you don't pick him, and that an efficient bulk go to guy probably won't, and you're going to be lacking that.

Please expand upon this. Horrible block numbers and not one All Defensive Team. I'm interested in hearing what you saw in him...

I had this discussion with another 2p2er who thought I was nuts when I said Sheed and Laimbeer compare very similarly as far as playing style is concerned, with Laimbeer being better in all facets except post offense.

+1

I think the thing I dislike most about the Battier pick is that with Deron/Marion you had a really versatile combination that could play really well in the half court offense, can play a variety of offenses and can also play a really up tempo style where you try to force a lot of TO and run.

Battier is good defensively but I'm not really sure he would be great with a running team (hard to say since Houston is so slow but he doesn't seem like he's a great off the ball guy and he's def not a ball handler), and what he does on offense means you really force yourself to take a bulk scoring SG or post scorer (like there are any left) later. In a half court set, he really doesn't give you much besides the 3pt shot, and you have no real post presence so besides Deron I don't see who is going to free you up.

Not to say the team is terrible or can't be salvaged, but I think the pick was a reach and also not a great fit...

+1

He did have some stiff competition for All D teams in those days, and he obv wasn't a great help defender. Often times he'd be the one guarding their opponents best interior, with Hakeem being the help guy. Like most great post defenders (Duncan, Laimbeer, Sheed, XXXX), he had quick feet but didn't leave them that often, and most importantly their hands were usually a foot away from the ball at all times.

I think that it's rare to find a big man who can be a great help and post defender, Duncan and Ewing are good examples, because what makes you great in one can hurt you in the other. If you leave your feet a lot, you are going to get caught more often. And when you do alter a shot, you are rarely in position to get the rebound.

That's kinda why I always felt, and this is just from my own perception, that Ewing in his prime was a better overall defender than Hakeem or Drobinson, and that Duncan is better than all of them.

waaaaay more likely than .000001%. the dude is absolutely insane. all it will take is one little thing to set him off. if its not a fight with someone in the stands it might be him drop kicking the other team's mascot and eating his heart or something.

I wanted Chambers.

I don't see how Thorpe is such a great pick while Chandler is mediocre. Chandler is a better defender w/ similar offense + 3 inches IMO.

06-07 Spurs: 5th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
05-06 Heat: 7th in offensive rating, 9th in defensive rating
04-05 Spurs: 8th in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
03-04 Pistons: 18th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
02-03 Spurs: 7th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
01-02 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
00-01 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 21st in defensive rating
99-00 Lakers: 4th in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
98-99 Spurs: 11ts in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
97-98 Bulls: 8th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
96-97 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating
95-96 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
94-95 Rockets: 6th in offensive rating, 12th in defensive rating
93-94 Rockets: 15th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
92-93 Bulls: 2nd in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
91-92 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating
90-91 Bulls: 1st in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
89-90 Pistons: 11th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating
88-89 Pistons: 7th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
87-88 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 9th in defensive rating
86-87 Lakers: 1st in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
85-86 Celtics: 3rd in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
84-85 Lakers: 1st in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating
83-84 Celtics: 5th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
82-83 76ers: 5th in offensive rating, 5th in defensive rating
81-82 Lakers: 2nd in offensive rating, 10th in defensive rating
80-81 Celtics: 5th in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating


I've bolded the years in which the champ was rated higher on offense than on defense. Only twice has a team won without being top 10 on D. Four times that has happened on offense.

Also....

07-08 Spurs: 15th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating
07-08 Lakers: 3rd in offensive rating, 5th in defensive rating
07-08 Celtics: 9th in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating
07-08 Pistons: 6th in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating


You'll note that four out of the top 5 defensive teams from this year are still alive. The #2 team is the Rockets, who also made the playoffs and won 55 games despite losing Yao for a large part of the year.

Wow, I just came across a player that I totally forgot about and is awesome value at this point. Snap. Supa sleepa.

D

They are differnt types of defenders, and offensively their games were much different. Thorpe put the ball on the floor and drove more than his high FG% would lead you to beleive. He was also quite a crafty finisher for a big man.

Chandler is good at all aspects of defense, wheras Thorpe was great at one, and the other... well he had Hakeem

I'm not sure you can compare the two because they had completely different roles.

I don't know who was dogging the Chandler pick, I think it is solid.

Also, the 2 guys shouldn't really be compared as they are used for different reasons, and also play different positions.