I understand its not a fix for poor knee construction. I understand that the problems will one day come back. I never said otherwise in my post. What I did say was that it took 26 years for Penny's cartilidge to wear down the first time. If it could be repaired using today's microfracture procedures then maybe it'd take another 5-10 years for it to wear down again. Neither of us really have any clue.

Also while you may have researched microfracture surgery a lot, I don't think you've researched the knee condition that Penny had. KLJ said that the Magic doctors misdiagnosed his condition and didn't discover it until age 26. This obviously wasn't good for him. Since I'll know about his condition right away when I get him on his 24th birthday(about 2 1/4 years before they found out about it) theres a chance that it could be treated much better and maybe even cured.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. However, I don't need any miraculous recovery for me to be happy with my pick. If all of these factors I described can give me just 2 or 3 more years of "Prime Penny" then that'll make a solid 6 years with him playing like that(and many more with him as a decent role player). That'd be 6 years of me having imho the best 1-2 punch in this draft. Now will all these factors let me get 2 or 3 more years than Penny got in real life? Its a definite unknown, but I think the reward is worth the risk at pick #75.

look, i dont care if his seasons were top 20, 25, 5, or 50. ya, he was great for that brief amount of time.

but yoooooouuuuuuuuuuu, keep ignoring my point. i could drag out a list of guys who had 1 or 2 spectacular years, then fell off dramatically but sustained a long career. why is penny rated above these guys? they would be rated much higher in this draft by getting injured immediately after their great year. i dont think thats fair.

Victor, here is what happened:


-I made a post

-You made a few posts after it without responding to it whatsoever

-I made another post in which the first sentence was "Does you ignoring the major point of my post mean you take back what you said?"

-You responded to 2 or 3 posts made after that second post of mine.


At that point, do you really blame me for thinking that you're ignoring my point? If you weren't ignoring it but were just "tackling the easy ones first" then thats fine, but I think you could see why I thought you were ignoring me. I certainly don't see how it was immature of me. If I came across as immature, then I apologize, but that was far from my intention.

How does "neither of us have a clue" defend your pick? You've said that like 20 times already.

We have a clue of what happened to him already. We have some clues that he had knee problems before his blowout. What we definitely have no clue about is can Penny stay healthy for an entire career. Because we do know for sure his career is capable of being wrecked because of injuries.

Its not on us to prove he will get hurt. We've seen it already.

I really want it to be my pick right now, someone trade with me or 4 people in front of me go really fast.

assani, from now on, i will be sure to read the posts in the order they are posted, even if they may be very long and respond to posts in the order they are recieved.

striving for a better 2p2,
victor

I don't agree that you could drag out that list. I think your list would be of guys who:

Got injured and never got back to their pre-injury level. An example of this may be Wade or Arenas.

OR

Were never that great to begin with. Maybe they played on a bad team so they had good bulk numbers, but once they got to a good team their usage went way down. Imo these players didn't get any worse they just started getting the number of touches they deserved(less than earlier). I have quite a few examples of this but none of them have been drafted yet.

Basically I think you're way underrating Penny's combo of efficiency and bulk. Nobody does that if they're not legit. It simply can't happen because when you're a bulk scorer its too big of a sample size to be a fluke.

Players will very rarely come into the league at age 22 or younger, show a lot of potential and get better throughout their first season or two, peak at 23 or 24, have no injury, and then get significantly worse.

Obviously you can't name undrafted players, but maybe PM me a list of players that fit this description or wait until they're drafted to bring them up. I really can't think of anyone that fits this description.

My favorite thing about Assani's pick is the easter eggs. Round 2 Recap is comin' atcha, y'all. I might be shooting my wad, actually. I got 8 more rounds!

Ok....

We know that Penny got hurt in real life.

We know that in our league Penny will have a better chance of staying healthy than he did in real life due to advances in microfracture surgery, knowing about his knee condition 2.25 years earlier, and a bunch of other things I've mentioned but won't go over again because we've discussed them already.

We don't know how much better his chances will be though. We can estimate here for sure. But our estimations are going to be pretty much total guesses and won't prove anything imo. Worst case scenario would be that those things don't help us much at all. Best case would be that those things prove to be huge and Penny plays 10+ healthy seasons. Most likely scenario is somewhere in the large gap in between those two extremese.

I'm gonna go out for the night, so we may have to put this discussion on hold for now. I'll be back later though for sure to argue it more. Feel free to leave me a few(or even a bunch of) posts to respond too whenver I get back...

vic is having an all-star performance in this thread. Nice work dude

well, im gonna start combing the archives for old school players with knee problems. we has surgery advances now!

God I had a sick one that I was banking on with my 5th or 6th rounder, now one of you bastards is gonna prob snatch him.

Arguing in this thread is so -ev it's ridiculous.

for the purposes of this draft, i think it goes against the spirit of this super-league to disclose future information to the players (same with allowing "medical advances", etc). and i'm one of the people who would benefit most from this.

adds a whole new level of hypotheticals which makes it exponentially harder to judge

Don't you think it's a problem though, with making the cavaat that a player who had serious injury issues might not have the same injury severely helps those who have had serious injuries. Why are they the 1 exception? I know if I'm drafting hill I'm going to get 5 years at extreme level and then injury issues most of the rest of the way, that's just part of drafting him. I don't think it's fair that advances were made to do certain things so now b/c I drafted him it's no big deal anymore. It should be a big deal. Obviously Assani you know what your getting into with Penny and I have no mallet of you drafting him but I don't think it's necessarily fair that we bring up advances in certain surgeries or some rediculous counter-measure to an extreme problem with a player. That's the problem, that's why he fell, don't think you can easily get out of it.

yeah... I took Bird fully expecting everyone to discount the end of his career.

Here's my write-up for the Jefferson pick. If a mod could edit it into my post, that would be great.

After failing to trade up, I am pleasantly surprised to see Big Al fall to me in this slot. Jefferson is coming off an 82 game season of 21/11 with a PER of 22.7, all at the age of 23. There aren't many 20/10 guys around, let alone left in the draft, and his array of low post moves will allow him to continue putting up similar numbers in the future. His low TS% is partially due to facing plenty of double teams while playing for a bad Minnesota team. Jefferson's defense and free throw shooting have gotten better each year and should at least stay where they are, if not improve further.

With this pick, I am hoping to recreate the succesful pairing of Kobe and a dominant big man, like Shaq and more recently, Bynum and Gasol. This permits me not to worry much about scoring in the later rounds, letting me focus on defense, passing, and open shooting, most likely starting with a defensive-minded center. I am confident this tandem will give me one of the highest powered offenses in the league.

A TS of .540 is not not low at all, particularly for a post player. Ewing, Hakeem, and Duncan were in the .550s... That is pretty sexy company imo.

McHale has a career TS% of .605 (with a lack of a long peak too), with years of .617, .623, .655, .656, .623

Ship the freakin surest 2 points in bball pls

To be fair, that includes their decline years. They were mostly a few tenths higher in their primes, though that's mitigated by the fact that Jefferson has been playing for crappy teams thus far and is still developing.

They're getting a retro release this fall.

http://niketalk.yuku.com/topic/65475...CS.html?page=1

Wrongo. Barkley is .612, with seasons of .661, .660, .665, and and .653. But then again he wasn't nearly as well rounded as McHale... oh wait.

Ya when they still didn't have the 5 second rule, once they added it Barkley fell off drastically. (And the 5 second rule will be in this league too).

And Barkley isn't as well rounded as McHale, Barkley's defense blew. McHale has no weak spots in his game.

Owned.

ruf**** already pmed me that but thanks anyway