Long time ago I saw a documentary on 50 greatest players. Koncak made the list.

yeah it's not like every player and every pick in every draft ever isn't pre-analyzed like mad

I thnk its quite standard to talk about players before theyre drafted - but in the format we have...I kindve see the argument. If you havnt noticed - players that were being heavily discussed were picked up alomost immediately with the nest pick.

Also - a good example of discussing players before they get picked up would be when HighStakesPro decided to "sleep on it" after all the talks influenced his next pick. (He was ready to pick Dwight Howard - but after everyone was saying how bad of a pick that would be...he was afraid to make that pick...and decided to go with Chuck)

I do like discussing the picks-to-be, but you guys understand that it does heavily influence the next pick..right?

I dont know if there is any kindve comprimise we can make here - so - I guess we just have to expect it. Im ok with that, I guess...since theres no way of really getting around it. Personally - I like the grneral discussion more then the actual picking anyway.

i'll take the first spot on the unlikely waiting list though, i really don't mind

Yea KLJ has been asking to get in for a bit also.

umm.. is this even worth addressing? The top 20 or so are pretty standard.

Im sure someone else is going to pull of a NOAH and just not show up - so...maybe we should complie a waiting list with people who can come in immediately if there are any no-shows.

Isn't the main thing that will keep this thread going for months is the discussion? Limiting that is problematic.

People think they are smarter than everyone else and have all of these amazing sleepers, I just don't think its as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

This thing is going to take forever, and the best part of it is discussing all of the pics, making fun of HSP, and all of that good stuff. As has been noted before, this isn't for money.

im with franchise, the fun in this is making fun of HSP.

If KLJ has been asking for a while then hes in too. I'd rather go over by one person than shut someone out unfairly. 41 is fine.

Rajon Rondo people mid second or slip to early 3rd?

Again you're not understanding. Nobody is making the argument that we're giving away sleepers or anything like that. What we are saying is that naming players influences peoples draft picks because if a group of players have been mentioned but they were thinking of picking someone else then they wonder why that someone else wasn't mentioned. People don't want to make a pick and then hear "Wow what a reach." But I would much rather people make tons of "reaches" and go with their own opinions rather than follow the herd. It will make for much better discussion if everyone makes their picks all by themselves with no help.

You say you don't want to limit discussion, but you're actually limiting discussion by doing this. Without people disagreeing there is no discussion.

then tell these pussies to man up

LOL

I like how I thought it was clear who we were talking about with the SF, but it turns out everyone was talking about two different people...

Haha yea.

wait, 2 different ones? Im talking about the ugly one

The ugly one and the dunker.

+1

I disagree with this for several reasons...

In general, superstars who have come straight out of high school have continued to improve thier games into their mid twenties and have not peaked at 22-23. This is true of Kobe, KG, Jermaine O'neil, Lebron etc... I actually can't think of someone who came out of high school, had a big impact, and peaked around age 22. Who am I looking over?

As far as Dwight individually, obviously his scoring has improved each year he has been in the league, from 12.0, 15.8, 17.6, to this year where he averaged 20.7. He probably won't average 14 boards per game for his career, but he'll probably be the best or second best rebounder in the NBA for some time to come. His field goal shooting has improved from great to basically unheard of... while there is not room for him to improve his shooting % he will still continue to develope as an offensive player. If he can create more shots for himself by improving his mid range game a bit and add a few tricks in the post, he would be more valuable taking an extra 5 shots a game if that meant dropping his FG% into the low fifties. He likley will not have the weight issues that Shaq has, and he is less of a monster than Yao and far more athletic, so I really think he should be less injury prone at similar ages compared to those guys. I just don't think any of the information out there supports this being the best season of Dwight Howards career...

Howard is obviously a stud, I just think people are mistaken when they act like it is a fact that Howard will get all of these new post moves, become a great back to the basket player, improve his passing considerably, etc.

I think the point JOA is making is that Howard is getting everything he can out of his insane athleticism right now. That aspect of his game isn't going to improve. For him to improve as a player he needs to learn/master multiple skills which are essential to his growth as a player.

I'm not claiming he will be unable to do these things or anything along those lines, I just don't think its a given.

This is the main problem I have with the overvaluing of young players in this thing, everyone is expecting a player to continue to improve year after year, and its just not always the case.

Would you say Kobe has significantly improved from his age 22 season? In fact, his age 22 season is pretty similar to last season, when he was MVP.

Would you say KG significantly improved from his age 23 season? He went from being a 20/11 guy to a 22/12 guy in his MVP year.

Lebron? Well, you know, he's 23. So we don't know yet.

Jermaine O'Neal? JO wasn't a great player until he was 27, so this really isn't that prudent of a comparison.

I'm not saying Dwight Howard won't improve. He has a chance to get a little better, if only because he'll shoot more. Maybe his FT% goes up a little. However, I'm questioning the idea that he is undoubtedly going to improve. I'm also really questioning the idea that he could take a big jump. If Dwight Howard takes a "big jump" and lasts until he's 35, he's going to be hands down the best player of this generation.

IMO, if the consensus is that he's going to continue to get better and stay healthy, he should have been a top 10 pick.

That was my case for picking Chris Paul with the 11th pick...

I think the best value so far is the Mailman pick. I think he is a little underrated from playing in such a small market - 11 straight All-NBA first team selections is an absolutely ridiculous accomplishment. He had a much longer peak than many of the players chosen ahead of him, and it was pretty high too (31/11 in his best year).

These are all great points. I'm not sure that he's going to improve statistically, my argument is that he will probably become a little more efficient. Not much, but enough to make him a great pickup where he was drafted. But yeah saying he's a lock for Hakeem/Robinson-like dominance is a bit of a stretch.