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07-05-2010 , 12:16 PM
He was a wierd one in TUF1.
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07-05-2010 , 12:22 PM
Random assorted news:

Dan Henderson moving back to 205, possibly against Babalu

UFC is rumored to be targeting Lesnar vs Carwin for UFC 119 in Indy, which would be an incredibly fast turnaround.

Wandy says he wants to fight Chris Leben
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07-05-2010 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
Chris Leben made me a fan this weekend. I've never particularly cared for him, didn't really dislike him but didn't really like him either. But after watching that fight again I am turning into a Leben mark. Here's a guy who just clearly loves to ****ing fight. He loves his job and you can tell, and he basically never has a boring fight.
stephan bonnar> leben as far as markout value is concerned.
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07-05-2010 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
Wandy says he wants to fight Chris Leben
Excellent matchup.

Pride Wandy from about 7 years ago would have destroyed Leben's face and soul, but now this is a very intriguing fight.
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07-05-2010 , 12:56 PM
I don't think I could stomach watching Wand lose to Leben, and that's with Leben turning me into a fan of late.
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07-05-2010 , 01:05 PM
you gotta love Wand though. Just wants to fight someone exciting and loves to bang.
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07-05-2010 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
Random assorted news:

Dan Henderson moving back to 205, possibly against Babalu

UFC is rumored to be targeting Lesnar vs Carwin for UFC 119 in Indy, which would be an incredibly fast turnaround.

Wandy says he wants to fight Chris Leben
Is that supposed to be lesnar/cain, or are they really talking rematch?
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07-05-2010 , 01:23 PM
wait, sorry. Lesnar vs Cain.
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07-05-2010 , 01:33 PM
Well, Lesnar gets ~3.5 weeks to recover then a 8 week camp. Faster than normal but I think it's enough. According to wiki UFC 120 is a free event that takes place in the UK and 121 takes place in Germany. They probably want to keep Brock off of those cards (of course he won't be on the free one) and waiting until after that is too long. Plus Dana needs to back up his "our champions fight 3 times a year" bs.
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07-06-2010 , 08:26 PM
ex-girlfriend works for yahoo sports and gets free tickets to most of the fights, took me to Brock/Carwin this weekend. Pretty sweet seats right behind press row:

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07-06-2010 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_

Jesus, if Brock can get his submission game that slick, that's scary.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
He stopped Brock while Brock was pounding the **** out of Mir in their first fight on a questionable back of the head call. Brock also felt Maz took too long to stop the fight when Brock tapped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipAbXzs4uLk





Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
I'm not disagreeing with this. But Brock taking that much punishment is amazing. If there's a hypothetical fighter out there that can stop Brock's takedowns, has as much power as Carwin, and won't gas, that guy can beat Brock. But right now that's just a hypothetical guy.


Spoiler:
Although I will say that I'm not sure how well he can defend Brock's takedowns, but I also don't think its fair to judge his TDD based upon his previous fights because in many of his previous fights he didn't seem to mind the fight going to the ground(whereas he'll obviously not want Brock on top of him).

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 07-06-2010 at 08:39 PM.
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07-06-2010 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimmer4141
Leben/Akiyama was an outstanding fight. .
+1

Its much harder to judge a fight when watching live(partly because you miss some stuff on the ground, partly because theres no announcers to help you, and then partly because of all the drinking you're doing) so I wanted to ask everyone: If Akiyama didn't get submitted and it went to the judges, who would've won?
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07-06-2010 , 08:44 PM
would have a been a split decision a high % of the time.

I had it very very closely at 29-28 sexyama
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07-06-2010 , 08:51 PM
Ok. I had bet on Akiyama -200, so thats why I'm asking.
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07-06-2010 , 08:56 PM
akiyama was probably very overrated and didnt deserve that line, fwiw. (i bet him too)
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07-06-2010 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbynator
akiyama was probably very overrated and didnt deserve that line, fwiw. (i bet him too)
I hadn't even heard of him before, but I wanted some action since I was gonna be there and plenty of people in Sports Betting advocated betting him. Oh well. Lost two of my 3 bets(had Brock ftw), but was still a good time.
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07-06-2010 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
Ok, so my thoughts on the main event last night, with a little bit of time to reflect:

What we learned:

Shane Carwin's power is not a myth. If he hits you, you are in trouble. Anyone, anywhere. His GNP can be vicious as well.

Lesnar looked both weak and strong. If you have power, and you can hit Lesnar sqaure on the button, he won't react that well. He used the Tito shell and backed up, and was dazed.

However, he must have an iron chin. Carwin has KO'd every other UFC opponent in the first round, and he cleanly tagged Lesnar, hurt him, and then GNPed him viciously, and Lesnar survived impressively.

Carwin's gas tank is indeed very suspect. Lesnar was noticeably the fresher fighter in the second round and even at the end of the first round.

Lesnar did have a decided wrestling edge. The first shot was barely stopped by Carwin, and while he did a good job eventually stuffing it, it was clear Lesnar was going to be the more dangerous wrestler. Lesnar was likely only seconds away from a takedown at the end of R1, and easily got one in R2 (although carwin was gassed).

Lesnar knows submissions. That was an excellent technical set up. Watch as he softens Carwin up with strikes from the half-guard, the whole time he is looking for that grip. His right arm is in position deeply underhooking Carwin's left arm the whole time. Brock's left arm is not in position, so he lands a few shots and then when Carwin opens a little bit, he grabs the choke and transitions to mount, and then to side control on the opposite side. From there, it's already locked in and it's hard to escape that kind of choke from a guy like Lesnar (because strength is a factor, unlike some other subs). That choke is rarely used directly from side control, but you see high level grapplers set it up from half-guard and make that exact same transition.

What we did not learn:

I wouldn't call Lesnar's stand up terrible, as several ITT have. It's worse than Carwin's, for sure. But you're vastly overreacting to 20 seconds where Lesnar was tagged and hurt. Let's not ignore that he outstruck every fighter he's faced before this. He's dropped Mir, Herring, and Randy, and generally looked pretty good standing. He took a few blows from Mir and Randy as well, so his chin seems ok against non-Carwin fighters.

I wouldn't hop off the Carwin bandwagon either. He doesn't necessarily have terrible grappling or sub-defense, as he likely wasn't training for the possibility of having to use them. His gas tank is suspect, for sure. That's the kind of thing that can be improved, though.

In a rematch, I'd have no idea who to pick. I don't think Lesnar would get tagged so badly in the opening minute a second time around. I also think Carwin's gas tank would be better. I'd love to see it though. There's also the issue of Brock's layoff, illness and ring-rust. Was this Brock better than the old Brock because he was healed, or worse because of the ring rust, or about the same? Who knows...

Cain Velasquez is in trouble imo. Clear disadvantage wrestling. Clear athleticism/size disadvantage. Striking, who knows? He knocked out Nog but all the cool kids are knocking out Nog these days. I don't think there is a clear-cut edge in striking. I don't see Cain able to KO Brock or take a decision from him very often.

Rest of the card was awesome as well, but I feel like I've typed too much already.

I would love it if you would do previews and recaps in this fashion for us more often. Very insightful.
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07-06-2010 , 09:14 PM
i also thought akiyama would squeek it out if he didnt tap FWIW. 29-28 sounds about right. Great fight.
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07-06-2010 , 10:23 PM
Bodog has on its website Carwin only made $40,000. Did he really only make this much, or did he probably take home some more $$ underneath the table?
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07-06-2010 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdock99
Bodog has on its website Carwin only made $40,000. Did he really only make this much, or did he probably take home some more $$ underneath the table?
Maybe if he bet on Brock.

Dana was widely criticized for many years for not paying top level fighters the same money they could make in Pride FC, and Pride clearly had a better stable of fighters because of it. So no, Dana isn't paying anyone under the table -- it actually seems as if they've been pretty eager to point out how much their fighter payouts have increased. That number does seem low for Carwin in a title fight, but it's not shocking. Carwin, talented though he is, is not a guy the UFC is going to throw six figures at.
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07-06-2010 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexArcher
Maybe if he bet on Brock.

Dana was widely criticized for many years for not paying top level fighters the same money they could make in Pride FC, and Pride clearly had a better stable of fighters because of it. So no, Dana isn't paying anyone under the table -- it actually seems as if they've been pretty eager to point out how much their fighter payouts have increased. That number does seem low for Carwin in a title fight, but it's not shocking. Carwin, talented though he is, is not a guy the UFC is going to throw six figures at.
Carwin was quoted saying he didn't do much Media stuff before the fight because of how much he was being paid. That said Dana said in the post fight conference ALOT of guys will be getting some juicy bonus's after the awesome card that was put on. I presume the PPV buys will be insane as well so I think Shane will do ok. He still works a fulltime job on top of all this which is insane, but he does that because he likes it, not because he has to so thats cool.
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07-07-2010 , 12:04 AM
i thought carwin quit his engineering job.
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07-07-2010 , 12:06 AM
I find it amazing that Carwin's base pay was actually less than Leben and Akiyama (43k and 45k respectively). I'm assuming Shane is still working with the contract he originally signed with the UFC but if he's a free agent anytime soon he will have to be getting 6 figures a fight or very close, no way Werdum should be making 100k fighting for a much smaller organization while Carwin makes 40k.

So many great fights will come off this card aside from Brock/Cain. Sotiropolous/Dunham should happen and will be an amazing fight, Gerald Harris should be getting a fight against a big name MW, maybe Bisping, Bonnar gets to hang around and continue to give us great fights whenever he's in the cage. Brendan Schaub so far is making me look good with my claim that he would make a Cain Velasquez type splash, I'm excited for his next fight I'm hoping it's against either a good prospect like Dufee/Barry/Russow or a gatekeeper type like Kongo. Leben/Wanderlei would be a 185lb version of Garcia/Jung, or maybe LeBen gets Belfort both fights would be amazing.

This was easily the best card I've ever seen, some are calling it the best card ever, I can't say because I haven't been an MMA fan that long. All I know is including the 3 fights they showed on the prelims all 8 fights were entertaining.

Last edited by pokeriseasy; 07-07-2010 at 12:16 AM.
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07-07-2010 , 12:09 AM
it was by far the best card i can remember the last 2-3 years by far. then again most of the cards havent' been that great after watching them.
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07-07-2010 , 12:22 AM
It was the best UFC card I have seen and I have watched just about every Pride and UFC event. Pride had some awesome cards that are still probably as good if not better than this past UFC. Shockwave 2004, Bushido 9, Pride 33, Grand Prix's, Final Conflict 2003 were all amazing.
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