Rashad does not match up very well with Shogun. But I'm sure you guys can make a killing when Rashad opens up as a pretty decent dog

Sorry, but I think this is an oversimplification. Yes, Shogun bring some things to the table with his Muay Thai that Rampage doesn't have, so yes, Rashad will have to fight a different gameplan.

But a lot of Rashad's strengths that worked against Rampage are there against anyone -- He has great takedowns and wrestling and in the standup he's got good footwork, fast hands, and good head movement. Dude is just hard to hit. He also comes in with a good gameplan and sticks to it. You can't look at his fight against Rampage and say, "that won't work against Shogun" because it won't be the same gameplan.

I think Shogun is going to spend a lot of time on his back in this fight, and though he's solid there, he's probably not going to tap Rashad, and Rashad will get points for the takedowns, position control, and any strikes.

Shogun is devastating with his standing strikes, but the question is, can he land them often enough to score enough points to offset Rashad's points on the ground, or to finish Rashad? And it's a fair question. Rashad's record is what it is for a reason, this is gonna be a good fight.

Shogun is pretty elite at getting up. I'm sure Rashad will take him down a bunch but I don't think it's going to matter. It'll be a five round fight and eventually Shogun is going to knock him the **** out.

I agree. If the line is close to even I am probably going big on Shogun. I'm not sure what line I would like Rashad at but it's probably over +200

Could very well happen that way. That's why it's an interesting matchup to me -- it could end a lot of different ways. I can see Shogun winning by standing KO or decision, and I could see Rashad winning by KO standing (his boxing isn't helpless), GNP TKO, or decision. It's not one of those fights where you know one guy is gonna need a KO or a sub to win.

I don't understand why anyone thinks Rashad is certain to get wrecked (and I wonder how many of them thought Rampage was going to wreck Rashad). Rashad just doesn't get wrecked, he's a tough, smart fighter. Even if he is overmatched on paper, he's never going to be a guy that I'll look at and say, "not much chance".

You can't just push Shogun up in to a cage and hold him there to look for grappling opportunities like all Jackson fighters do. Shogun has some of the best muay thai in MMA history and Rashad will get knocked out if he tries to clinch and push like you are suggesting.

Also Shogun can certainly tap Rashad

Whoa, who said anything about Rashad clinching? I think he'll avoid that like the plague if he can. But his single and double are very strong and Shogun's sprawl isn't.

And sure, Shogun can tap Rashad, but he'd be the first. I wouldn't go wagering on it.

I bet on Sugar to beat Rampage, he had obvious advantages match-up wise that don't exist the same way as you are suggesting.

'Not much chance' is a pretty accurate way to predict Rashad vs Shogun as it would be for Rashad vs Machida again. That doesn't mean no chance fwiw, anything can happen.

Rashad has never really beaten anyone with world class muay thai or jiu jitsu which Shogun has both of.

I think Shogun is built to destroy the Jackson style of fighting (obviously some exceptions, but there's a definitely a trend in style for Jackson Camp fighters, push up against cage, grapple, stay on top (often lay on top)

Shogun is just too quick and strong and good at getting up and you can't put him near the fence.

Don't you find it just a tiny bit ironic that you were all "LOL SE MMA threads" in an earlier post and now pretty much every regular MMA poster is disagreeing with you here?



Rashad: very good takedowns
Shogun: questionable takedown defense

Do you disagree with either of those two things?



Hes beaten everyone except one fighter(a guy who some considered the best fighter in the world a few months ago), so basically you're saying that he hasn't faced anyone with those attributes then.

I'd be pretty highly shocked if Rashad wins by KO. He's got the power to do it, but Shogun has fantastic recovery and has taken huge shots in the past and been pretty unphased. I think Shogun via submission is more likely than Rashad via KO.

I picked Rashad to beat Rampage.

I didn't say Rashad has the same advantages in the Shogun fight, I said he'll have the same strengths. The degree to which different strengths are an advantage will vary from one opponent's strengths to another's, of course.

I'm not picking Rashad to beat Shogun, by the way, I'm just saying that suggesting Rashad has very little chance to win is a mistake that people keep making with Rashad over and over and over. I don't think anyone can reasonably say that Shogun is more than a 60/40 favorite in this fight.

The popular opinion from the EDF thread is that Shogun will beat Rashad


What's he gonna do once he gets him on the ground Assani?

Eh, Shogun is the favourite but EDF is in a giant Shogun nut-hugging phase right now.

Well he's going to retire as the best LHW fighter in the history of MMA, so I see no problem with that.

I can. I'll take Shogun -150 right now if you wanna

I would also take -150 action on Shogun if you want it. Not trolling, just an offer .


I like Rashad and I picked him over Rampage. I think he has a chance of winning of course but I like Shogun a lot here. His Muay Thai and JJ have looked great recently and I think these mitigate a lot of Rashad's strengths. I just can't see the gameplan that Rashad will use to win this fight. Maybe that will change closer to the fight.

I think the actual lines will come out higher than that, though. We'll see.

Because he's not 40% or that close to it imo

If you believe he's actually 40% to beat Shogun you are gonna love the Rashad side of this line

Nobody here has said that Rashad is > 50% to win, so I agree with you about popular opinion. However, I think you're smart enough to see the difference between this:


and this:



I also think you're smart enough to realize when you're being a homer or being irrational due to a hatred of a team/athlete, and you most definitely do not like Rashad personally.



Hold him there til the end of the round and win the round for being on top for so long.

OK so now I know you haven't watched many Shogun fights

i agree that shogun is ridiculously talented but i think rashad deserves more credit, a lot of people and i think most people in general thought machida was invincible and he got taken down so I def think rashad has more of a chance than most people itt think

until Silva moves up to LHW permanently.


Also I know their first fight was controversial, but whats the argument for Shogun > Machida career wise?

For the past 82 days, I've watched at least one Shogun fight every single day(obviously repeating many of them, some multiple times).

I think a fair line would be Shogun -200/Rashad +180

Certainly not as one-sided as you'd think from C Vig's posts.