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Old 05-11-2010, 03:19 PM   #601
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Carwin is way too slow in the standup for Silva, and Silva's strikes are way too accurate and effective for Carwin to just "eat a few shots as he shoots in". Plus its being totally ignored that Silva would be able to bulk up(I'm assuming a climb to HW would only occur after he already entered the LHW division). Silva's guard is effective enough to stall out a guy like Carwin until the end of the round, and if Carwin takes too many chances Silva could easily get a submission.
Seriously, just stop. You clearly don't understand anything about wrestling. That obviously is okay, but you shouldn't be throwing around your opinions on things that you know nothing about as if they are facts.

FWIW, Silva could bulk up to Carwin's weight, and Carwin would still be able to take him down with ease.



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silva would have a way better chance against fedor than carwin or lesnar imo

Not even close. Carwin and Lesnar smash Silva. Silva has a reasonable chance against Fedor.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:23 PM   #602
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

Depends if Silva went to Golden Glory to get some tips on changing his diet to bulk up or not
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:23 PM   #603
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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FWIW, Silva could bulk up to Carwin's weight, and Carwin would still be able to take him down with ease.


That's only because Silva would be extremely overweight if he did that, nothing to do with Carwin's wrestling skills. Sonnen has a considerably better wrestling pedigree than Carwin and he's a huge dog against Silva.

That said, Fedor, Carwin and Lesnar all are favorites imo against Silva.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:44 PM   #604
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

Pretty damn pumped. Just got seats to UFC 116 Lesnar vs. Carwin in Vegas.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:12 PM   #605
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Pretty damn pumped. Just got seats to UFC 116 Lesnar vs. Carwin in Vegas.
i got tix to this to cap off my first vegas trip
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:34 PM   #606
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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That's only because Silva would be extremely overweight if he did that, nothing to do with Carwin's wrestling skills. Sonnen has a considerably better wrestling pedigree than Carwin and he's a huge dog against Silva.

That said, Fedor, Carwin and Lesnar all are favorites imo against Silva.
No, that's not the reason. It's the same reason how Frank Mir bulked up to 265+ and Carwin still overpowered him in the clinch. There's a huge difference between bulking up to get to a certain size and just being naturally that size. Carwin and Brock are just enormous humans and they are natrually walking around at 270+ and don't have to do anything special to get to that size. There are also just core muscles you get from years of wrestling that you just can't get from weight training.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:35 PM   #607
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Pretty damn pumped. Just got seats to UFC 116 Lesnar vs. Carwin in Vegas.
****ing runbad is costing me going to this. Should be awesome.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:56 PM   #608
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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No, that's not the reason. It's the same reason how Frank Mir bulked up to 265+ and Carwin still overpowered him in the clinch. There's a huge difference between bulking up to get to a certain size and just being naturally that size. Carwin and Brock are just enormous humans and they are natrually walking around at 270+ and don't have to do anything special to get to that size. There are also just core muscles you get from years of wrestling that you just can't get from weight training.
Well that was pretty much my point. Silva doesn't have the body type to be successful at that weight. My point is it has to do with strength more than wrestling. No one thinks Sonnen is a favorite because of his wrestling.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:46 PM   #609
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Well that was pretty much my point. Silva doesn't have the body type to be successful at that weight. My point is it has to do with strength more than wrestling. No one thinks Sonnen is a favorite because of his wrestling.
Ah, I see what you're saying. Honestly if Sonnen had better submission defense I think he would be a small fave over Silva. People try to say that Sonnen's submission D is better now but he was submitted by Maia and admittedly was close to passing out when Marquardt had him in a guillotine in the 3rd round. The reason I don't see Sonnen beating Silva is Sonnen doesn't finish fights and has no jiu jitsu offense and Silva has never even been close to being finished with strikes. In order for Sonnen to win this fight he'll have to consistently get takedowns and avoid either being tagged by punch, knee or kick and avoid submissions for 5 rounds and I just don't see that happening. Whereas Silva could just get dominated for the whole fight and then catch Sonnen with a knee coming in for a shoot or while he's on his back get him in an arm bar or triangle.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:51 PM   #610
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

guys it's assani
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:02 PM   #611
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

I have a feeling Silva has a short gas tank. He has violent weight swings and his fights have typically had a slow pace and lasted a while or fast pace and finished quickly. When you're fights go like that, it's human nature to not worry about cardio as much.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:13 PM   #612
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Arrow Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Silva has been taken down numerous times in his career. By good wrestlers and by mediocre wrestlers.

I've only seen his UFC fights, so i can't comment pre-UFC. With that said, I think hes shown enough improvement during his time in the UFC that we can somewhat discount pre-UFC stuff as well.

I'm pretty sure he came into the Lutter fight with major knee or leg injuries of some kind, which severely limited his TDD. Henderson was quite impressive in the first round, but Silva avoided any major punishment and round 2 was a completely different story. I think its significant that the first two fights that I think of when I think of "whats a fight where Silva got taken down" both ended in Silva submitting his opponents on the ground. It all goes back to what I was saying earlier about Silva's standing game being so good that it causes us to underrate his ground game. Maybe he didn't focus on TDD too much for those fights because he felt confident(and correctly so) that he could get the best of those two opponents on the groud. Maybe he won't feel that same way about Carwin and will practice better TDD against him.


Quote:
Carwin is 10x a better wrestler than anyone Silva has ever faced, considering the size difference.
As I said, in the past Silva has been taken down and then won the fight on the ground. If Silva respects his opponent's ground game more, then its quite probable he'll be focusing quite a bit more on TDD during his training and while in the ring.


I just don't follow this logic of yours though:

1. In the past, against guys with good but not great ground game, Silva has been taken down and ended up winning the fight on the ground

2. Carwin has a much better ground game than any of those guys, so Silva probably won't be able to best him on the ground

3. Therefore Silva is going to be taken down by Carwin and beaten on the ground("easily" according to you btw)


I mean, thats pretty much a 100% accurate description of what you're saying, is it not? It completely and totally ignores the concept that maybe, just maybe, Silva doesn't mind going to the ground against guys who are mediocre on the ground but would go way out of his way to avoid doing so against a guy like Carwin. I mean, wasn't it Silva who brought the fight to the ground against Henderson in the 2nd round? Doesn't that alone show how different his strategy was against Henderson than it would be against Carwin?


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Silva would be dumped on his head.
You've said this multiple times now, and its really nothing more than hyperbolic words. Its not convincing me of anything.


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Carwin could indeed grab onto Silva easily.
LOL@ easily. Ah yea, so because quicker lighter fighters(who Silva doesn't fear as much on the ground) got Silva to the ground, surely Carwin will as well.....still not following this logic, man.


Quote:
You're acting like Silva's right hand is a nuclear ****ing guided missile. It's a fist. It can miss and he hasn't exactly been on a KO spree.
He has the most accurate and effective standup of any fighter in the world. Of course he "can" miss, but he lands an absurd number of his punches thrown.

Quote:
Maia spent a good deal of their fight lunging at him wildly and he didn't KO Maia.
He didn't KO Maia because he employed a no risk gameplan. Weren't you the one saying a few weeks ago that Silva could've easily KOed Maia if he wanted to?

But I'm glad you brought up Maia....here was a fight where everyone knew Maia's only chance was to take it to the ground. And he didn't even come close. In his most recent fight, against an opponent who clearly posed a threat to Silva on the ground, Silva's TDD was phenomenal. Isn't that more telling that earlier fights in which Silva may or may not have truly been bothered by going to the ground?






Quote:
I really get the feeling Assani has never done anything remotely involving wrestling.
Try again.

I wrestled in HS. I took a few months of private ju jitsu lessons, but my instructor moved away and I never did pursue it....only knew basic guard, arm bar, mount, etc. type stuff. I've always been quite quick for my size(205 lbs right now), as I was even able to play DII guard on a basketball team despite being pretty short and stocky looking.

I also played o-line/TE in HS football, and the leverage concepts there can carry over to wrestling a bit.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:14 PM   #613
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Arrow Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Sonnen has a considerably better wrestling pedigree than Carwin and he's a huge dog against Silva.
interesting
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:39 PM   #614
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

Are you seriously citing his TDD against somebody who has a terrible shoot? Also the whole Dan Henderson thing is not exactly good for your argument about how good Silva is on the ground, Silva didn't take Henderson down and gain a dominant position he dropped Henderson with strikes and gained a dominant position because of that.

Lutter is not a mediocore grappler, Silva 100% knew Lutter was going to try to take the fight to the ground and still couldn't stop it luckilly for Silva Lutter has the gas tank that is equivalent to Kimbo's.

You don't just all of a sudden develop good takedown defense, if at this point in his career Silva's takedown defense is only average it will never be better. Look at all the fighters with great TDD they have pretty much always had great TDD they didn't spend a good chunk of their careers getting taken down and then worked on it and got good at stuffing takedowns. The thing you aren't realizing is Maia isn't very athletic, Carwin is very athletic, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if you ran Maia and Carwin through an NFL combine Carwin would score much higher than Maia.

Also you will see when he fights Sonnen, somebody he knows is going to take him down that Silva will struggle to stuff them, and then your whole theory about if he trained for it he would stop them will go out the window.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:27 AM   #615
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

Got tickets for UFC116 as well, is cain the backup plan for this one if the main event falls trough bc of injury?

I like Assani's posts, at least, I would like to believe the same things he writes as well

I bet on Daley btw, just felt like there was enough chance Koscheck would be stupid enough to standup for too long to justify it ^^ If he uses this gameplan, I'm thinking he wins like 85% of the time though lol.

Last edited by Mejis; 05-12-2010 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:49 AM   #616
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Assani making ridiculous claims ITT!!!!!
Haha more true than ever now. Silva over Carwin??? Thats just crazy talk
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:48 PM   #617
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

OMG You guys are still talking about Carwin Silva...WHY? It will never happen!
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:05 PM   #618
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

Just a reminder tomorrow night Strikeforce is on. Overeem vs. Rogers , Arlovski vs. Silva, "Jacare" vs Villasenor and if you're into name recognition Kevin Randelman is fighting Roger Gracie. Overeem vs. Rogers should be a great fight.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:37 PM   #619
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

No one watching StrikeForce? Randleman just got ROCKED.

Last edited by dawade; 05-15-2010 at 10:38 PM. Reason: And then got put to sleep. gg.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:40 PM   #620
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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No one watching StrikeForce? Randleman just got ROCKED.
Is it on TV or a PPV?
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:42 PM   #621
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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Is it on TV or a PPV?
It's on Showtime.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:44 PM   #622
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

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It's on Showtime.
Hmm. Tigers are in extras right now, but I'll prob start watching after the game's over.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:46 PM   #623
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

gus johnson alert!

BASKETBALL HAS LEBRON JIUJITSU HAS THIS GUY
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:48 PM   #624
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

<3 Gus but he's so forced/cheesy in MMA.
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Old 05-15-2010, 11:48 PM   #625
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Re: MMA Spring/SummerThread

Yes! I was totally not expecting Gus Johnson when I started watching this.
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