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Old 11-08-2017, 02:14 PM   #76
that_pope
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

?

He was elected in '01 and died in '06.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:59 PM   #77
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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Originally Posted by that_pope View Post
I don't make statements with my feelings, I look at data.
I feel that your data is stupid if it says Mike Mussina was better than Roy Halladay, and the HOF is stupid if Schilling and Halladay aren't in it.

Spoiler:
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:56 PM   #78
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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?

He was elected in '01 and died in '06.
Meh, you're right, I had my numbers (and memories) mixed up. Still don't think Munson is a great comp though.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:09 PM   #79
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

Munson was a guy who died tragically early, during his playing career, after amassing some serious notables, especially as a catcher.

It didn't sway them into voting for him.

It's just a data point to counter the sentiment of this helping his election. Halladay's comp would obv be Clemente for a more analogous situation.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:56 PM   #80
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

So he basically offed himself, looking at the video of the crash. I imagine a lot of athletes seek the adrenaline rush they had while competing, but bro you got kids. How about leagues require mandatory therapy for retiring players?
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:56 PM   #81
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

I realize I never knew how near the end of his career Clemente was. 3,000 hits tells one not much longer, but i dont know maybe he had 3-5 years left.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:29 PM   #82
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

Regardless of how he died and the age that he died, the sportswriters would have always erred on the "yes" side for Halladay when it comes to HOF balloting. He might have needed some statistical help to make him a HOF-er for those into the metrics, but I don't think there is any doubt that if you look at the type of players who sportswriters give an "intangible" edge too, Halladay fits the bill. Stud, dominant, quiet, classy, role-model, 9 inning guy, no hitter, nasty stuff, strike-out guy, super-hard worker, etc.

I am not saying he is no-brainer on the stats, just pointing out that even without the emotional factor of him dying way too young, let's not pretend that the sportswriters where not putting him in the HOF. He was going in anyway.

The metrics argument is only valid if the majority of sportswriters anguish over the stats (and the correct stats!) on close decisions.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:36 PM   #83
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish View Post
Munson was a guy who died tragically early, during his playing career, after amassing some serious notables, especially as a catcher.

It didn't sway them into voting for him.

It's just a data point to counter the sentiment of this helping his election. Halladay's comp would obv be Clemente for a more analogous situation.
Roy is in. He was in before this tragedy
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:43 PM   #84
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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Originally Posted by txdome View Post
So he basically offed himself, looking at the video of the crash. I imagine a lot of athletes seek the adrenaline rush they had while competing, but bro you got kids. How about leagues require mandatory therapy for retiring players?
Not every death warrants a response. Sometimes its okay to do nothing.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:47 PM   #85
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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So he basically offed himself, looking at the video of the crash. I imagine a lot of athletes seek the adrenaline rush they had while competing, but bro you got kids. How about leagues require mandatory therapy for retiring players?
No.

If someone is waving a gun around carelessly and dangerously is it suicide if it goes off?

Yes, it appears he was flying some very, very dangerous patterns, and was risking his safety. But, it is a huge stretch to conclude he wanted to die.

A low altitude and slow speed impact on water is often survivable. If death was his intent he is not going to risk surviving. If he wanted certain death he climbs quite high and nosedives into the water... Best that can be concluded from the video and the eye witness reports is that he was flying dangerously. Unless you have some soul read on stunting versus suicide that you are not sharing.

Last edited by ArcticKnight; 11-08-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:58 PM   #86
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

I never thought it was a doubt of whether he was getting into the HOF or not.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:11 PM   #87
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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Originally Posted by DodgerIrish View Post
Munson never got in after dying at 32 from a plane crash with this resume (as a catcher at that):

Career highlights and awards
7× All-Star (1971, 1973–1978)
2× World Series champion (1977, 1978)
AL MVP (1976)
AL Rookie of the Year (1970)
3× Gold Glove Award (1973–1975)
New York Yankees captain (1976–1979)
New York Yankees #15 retired

Doesn't seem like premature death helps much unless you'd already get in.
I was a teenager and I remember my buddy calling me and telling the news. Was floored. Munson not being in is bad. Simmons was another great catcher of that era along with Bench, Carter and Fisk. Simmons should be in too.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:13 PM   #88
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

I have a feeling cause of death is going to end up being drowning.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:43 PM   #89
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

Well if we wanted to know who the piece of **** of the year was, here it is.

https://deadspin.com/boston-sports-r...-ro-1820270092
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:53 PM   #90
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2017-18 MLB Offseason Thread

Do i get 2nd because I agree with him?
Same goes for you morons riding motorcycles in the US.
I wish tapa talk didn't erase my original take. Post it mods.

Last edited by txdome; 11-08-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:51 PM   #91
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

17 year old Red Sox catching prospect Daniel Flores dies of cancer

jesus christ

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/r...dies_of_cancer
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:09 PM   #92
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyB66 View Post
Well if we wanted to know who the piece of **** of the year was, here it is.

https://deadspin.com/boston-sports-r...-ro-1820270092
I didn't realize txdome had a radio show.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:34 PM   #93
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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Originally Posted by txdome View Post
Do i get 2nd because I agree with him?
Same goes for you morons riding motorcycles in the US.
I wish tapa talk didn't erase my original take. Post it mods.
Before you actually kamikaze itt, let’s wait to see the toxicology reports to see if he Fernandez’d himself or not.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:46 PM   #94
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

I've known seven people who have died on motorcycles. No idea why they're legal. Drivers are just clearly unequipped to deal with them.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:02 PM   #95
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

I saw 2 people die right in front of me in front of the co-op where I once lived a few years back but the caveat to that was they were being chased by the cops and hit a car.

Accidents happen sometimes carelessly sometimes not, but even if lets say Halladay was ****ing around and messed up or otherwise intoxicated it doesn't change the person he was, and sure as hell doesn't give me the right to ever judge his character as a whole, based on one very unfortunately timed poor decision on his part...if it is even the case at all.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:03 PM   #96
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Wise View Post
I've known seven people who have died on motorcycles.
Jesus. Do you just know a ****ton of people?
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:05 PM   #97
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

Anyone’s character should be open to reconsideration if they died due to extreme recklessness on their part rather than due to forces beyond their control.

Especially if they have families.

Obviously time and place for that—let’s not talk gun control while the bodies are still warm.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:05 PM   #98
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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Jesus. Do you just know a ****ton of people?
I'd guess I know more than most, but I'm def an outlier on the death by motorcycle thing.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:52 PM   #99
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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I'd guess I know more than most, but I'm def an outlier on the death by motorcycle thing.
I knew at least 10 who died on motorcycles ... and I don't really get out much. The common denominator in most of these is car drivers not aware of the bike.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:10 AM   #100
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re: MLB Offseason Thread 2017-18

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Originally Posted by Bighurt52235 View Post
I realize I never knew how near the end of his career Clemente was. 3,000 hits tells one not much longer, but i dont know maybe he had 3-5 years left.
Statistically at 37 he hadn't declined at all, his career had an Adrian Beltre like arc through his 30's to that point.
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