MLB Offseason 2016 - Page 28 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

Ortiz is obviously a hall of famer. But he's also Boston's jeter and the most overrated player in modern baseball history

He's not a first ballot HOF'er, he's not a mortal lock who should get every vote, he won't be the most deserving member of the ballot he's on. To hear the way he's described in folk lore you'd think he's on the Mount Rushmore of Boston players (he's not) that he was the reason the curse ended (he wasn't) that he's the greatest DH of all time (he isn't) and that he's one of the most prolific postseason performers in baseball history (not only is that not true, he's not even more prolific than people who are still active MLB players)

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12-18-2016 , 02:40 PM

#677

VarianceMinefield

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Quote:

Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen

Ortiz is obviously a hall of famer. But he's also Boston's jeter and the most overrated player in modern baseball history

He's not a first ballot HOF'er, he's not a mortal lock who should get every vote, he won't be the most deserving member of the ballot he's on. To hear the way he's described in folk lore you'd think he's on the Mount Rushmore of Boston players (he's not) that he was the reason the curse ended (he wasn't) that he's the greatest DH of all time (he isn't) and that he's one of the most prolific postseason performers in baseball history (not only is that not true, he's not even more prolific than people who are still active MLB players)

They win in 2004 without him....?

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12-18-2016 , 02:59 PM

#678

Bighurt52235

I was born to eat hamburgers

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 24,218

Red Sox Rushmore. Ted, Yaz, Dwight Evans, and Nomah!

Actually cant think who comes after Ted and Yaz. Pedro had a great peak but I don't think those 7 seasons qualify.

Absolutely disagree he's not on the Rushmore, regardless if four other guys played better baseball.

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12-18-2016 , 03:06 PM

#679

IlliniLou

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DH thing doesn't make sense regarding HOF. If needed, Ortiz could have played 1B. Also, how many 1B are in the HOF because of their defense?

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12-18-2016 , 03:09 PM

#680

minnesotasam

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Boggs? Clemens? Cy Young?

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12-18-2016 , 03:10 PM

#681

TalkingDonkey

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Ortiz will obviously be in because his career narrative is catnip for moron baseball writers. clutch, rangs, dees ees our ****ing ceety, etc

it'll be a big joke that he'll be in and Edgar won't be. alas

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12-18-2016 , 03:25 PM

#682

StoppedRainingMen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield

They win in 2004 without him....?

probably not

also on the list of players they probably don't win that WS without:

ramirez, damon, vartiek, schilling, pedro and possibly a couple others i'm forgetting

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12-18-2016 , 03:26 PM

#683

StoppedRainingMen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bighurt52235

any red sox fan who puts ortiz over pedro has been a red sox fan for no greater than 12 years

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12-18-2016 , 03:28 PM

#684

StoppedRainingMen

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man ziegler-capps-ramos is a pretty decent 7-8-9

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12-18-2016 , 03:29 PM

#685

Bighurt52235

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Quote:

Originally Posted by minnesotasam

Boggs? Clemens? Cy Young?

I considered Cy Young, but wasn't sure how much time was with Boston, I know he played for 5 teams.

Thing is, Boggs was great, but one of 2 open spots signifying the significance (as an aside, I don't really like two similar words going together like that, don't feel like inserting synonyms though because those were both my #1 word choices) to the historic Boson franchise? I really don't think so. Not sure about Clemens. Feel like he did too much elsewhere.

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12-18-2016 , 03:31 PM

#686

Bighurt52235

I was born to eat hamburgers

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Quote:

Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen

man ziegler-capps-ramos is a pretty decent 7-8-9

They've really had a boner for their bullpen this offseason. Lost Mike Dunn though.

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12-18-2016 , 03:32 PM

#687

Heroball

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TalkingDonkey

Yeah, the Marathon Bombing probably put Ortiz from very likely to lock HOF.

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12-18-2016 , 03:34 PM

#688

Gary Wise

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Originally Posted by TalkingDonkey

I'm not a fan of the Edgar argument, simply because Edgar not being in is a farce and that mistake shouldn't be the judgment on which we base the decision to make more mistakes.

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12-18-2016 , 03:35 PM

#689

VarianceMinefield

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Quote:

Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen

probably not

also on the list of players they probably don't win that WS without:

ramirez, damon, vartiek, schilling, pedro and possibly a couple others i'm forgetting

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12-18-2016 , 04:05 PM

#690

txdome

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Quote:

Originally Posted by that_pope

Whos more likely to make the HOF, Pedroia or Ortiz?

You are an awful person for shifting the conversation focus to the Red Sox.

Bro and Machado are the same age. Who puts up a higher WAR in 2018. How close will Machado's contract be to Bro's. It would be ****ing ******ed for the 2 biggest contracts ever to be for right fielders.

Last edited by txdome; 12-18-2016 at 04:11 PM.

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12-18-2016 , 04:24 PM

#691

PocketChads

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Win adjusted rate

ITT

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12-18-2016 , 04:40 PM

#692

Bighurt52235

I was born to eat hamburgers

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 24,218

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketChads

Win adjusted rate

ITT

Yeah, lol. Intended to point it out but c'est la vie.

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12-18-2016 , 06:13 PM

#693

Bighurt52235

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Pardon the screen capture but I'm dumb and don't know a better method. But this is Kenta Maeda!

.

He strikes out some little kids as an old man.

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12-18-2016 , 07:05 PM

#694

minnesotasam

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bighurt52235

Why don't you think so for Boggs? I think you're probably severely underrating him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketChads

Win adjusted rate

ITT

Yeah I meant to quote that one too.

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12-18-2016 , 07:11 PM

#695

minnesotasam

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bighurt52235

Pardon the screen capture but I'm dumb and don't know a better method. But this is Kenta Maeda!

.

He strikes out some little kids as an old man.

http://deadspin.com/kenta-maeda-pret...ess-1790252164

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12-18-2016 , 07:33 PM

#696

Bighurt52235

I was born to eat hamburgers

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 24,218

Looked up Boggs baseball reference. Pretty interesting career. Was really good in the 80s, OPSing like .900 with almost no power. His first 12 seasons, his HR high was 24, second highest season was eight! Career walks double career Ks, which is really sexy.

11 years in Boston, subsequently gave the Yankees 5 solid years. Does all that equal a greater Red Sox career as far as recognition goes than Papi? I doubt it.

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12-18-2016 , 07:41 PM

#697

minnesotasam

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I mean Wade Boggs' wRC+ at Boston was a 142 and Ortiz' was a 146. But Wade Boggs played the field (and did so well) the entire time. He played about two seasons fewer, but played them all at 3B. Even avoiding sortbyWAR, I don't know how you can come up with argument that Ortiz had a better Red Sox career unless you're going entire by narrative.

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12-18-2016 , 07:42 PM

#698

PocketChads

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His 3x HR season was 1987 when they first tried the juiced baseballs

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12-18-2016 , 07:45 PM

#699

thebigeasy59

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Boggs was so great and criminally underrated, what with all the horse**** re: steroids and offence and HRs. Clearly better than Papi and we need to honor his memory. RIP.

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12-18-2016 , 07:47 PM

#700

minnesotasam

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Wade Boggs was really, really, really good. He was a legitimate MVP candidate throughout the 80s.

AL WAR finish for Boggs:
1983 - 2nd
1984 - 8th
1985 - 2nd
1986 - 1st
1987 - 1st
1988 - 1st
1989 - 2nd

I mean that's insane. Obviously he lead the entire AL in WAR over that period (by nearly 9 WAR over Rickey Henderson). He was 2nd in WAR (for all of MLB) for the entire 80s, despite not playing in 1980 or 1981.

Last edited by minnesotasam; 12-18-2016 at 07:48 PM. Reason: :thumb: to the two posts above me, good timing

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