I am pretty sure a few thousand Jordan fans were converted from that video alone once they saw what high IQ basketball sounds like.

Which opponent sounds tougher to you?


A) The least-experienced Finals participant ever that barely beats a 1-star team in the Finals

B) A long-standing organic juggernaut that sweeps Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson Spurs



What's a better supporting cast for a 2-time MVP like Curry or Malone?


A) 1st time all-star in 2015 and borderline top 100 player (Klay)

B) Top 50 all-time player and #1 all-time in assists & steals (Stockton)

every junior high player has that sort of exchange in a timeout before an upcoming inbounds play - it's standard x's and o's disguised as something more for the nascent fan like yourself.

any actual player understands that it's standard x's and o's talk and also that Lebron is basically massively exaggerating that players cannot flip plays in their head... maybe the occasional player with dyslexia perhaps - maybe that's what Lebron is talking about and therefore basically throwing this small minority under the bus to make himself look smart to his blind and naive followers.

the reality is that JJ Redick should ask Lebron about how to achieve elite chemistry, brand of ball, strategic capacity/coaching, young player development, or a #1 offense, since he's done none of these actual measuring sticks of IQ... the fact that he isn't capable of a dynasty or perennial favorite on the Finals level regardless of cast (can't achieve high team ceilings) proves that he lacks elite IQ and understanding of the game.. He sees everything through an AAU ball-dominance mindset, so his conclusions are quite shallow and yield losing and underperforming teams.

.
Regular Season

HORNACEK'...... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp on 33,964 min.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 ts
KLAY.................. 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp on 20,380 min.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 ts


Playoffs

HORNACEK'....... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp on 4766 min.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 ts
KLAY................... 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp on 4570 min.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 ts



CONCLUSION: Utah's 2nd and 3rd options (Stockton, Hornacek) were vastly superior to the 2nd option of the 2015 and 2016 Warriors

Lebron is proly a pos but he is putting thousands of kids through school in Akron and giving them housing so whatever. Jordan is tanking franchises and spewing money at racing teams. he could do all of that and still educate kids but he doesnt.

Is anyone catching this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4POxgyIvwk

Maybe so but without MJ those basket players today wouldn’t be winning what they have today either .
And that includes all the money they give to charity ….

Wow he has hit 4 x 99 successful free throw streaks and still trying, thats gotta hurt...

For the record, I’m just a big fan of people getting after it

Lift for a quarter century, you’ll get bigger

Lifting is great. I started some 8 years ago when I was 200 lbs and fat. Now I'm 225 lbs but leaner and jacked.

Still have some stubborn stomach fat which will require a cut at some point but I've been chasing progressively bigger squat/DL numbers.

Part 2 of LaBron podcast : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSji...mesandJJRedick

Hey Fallguy, can you please write up a detailed breakdown on this podcast? We want multi page analysis.



When Jordan sat down on camera, he spent hour propping himself up and crapping on Scottie Pippen. Maybe he shoulda done this kind of media instead.

I'm weak so I just body build instead.

I think my deadlift is in the mid 300s right now but I only pull conventional maybe once a year, instead I just do DB stiff leg deadlifts for reps for di hypertrophy. Working on maxing the DB rack on this right now.


Your squat and DL together is at what? 900 total not including bench? Strong man.

At the moment 465 squat 575 DL.

Don't need bench to go over 1000 lbs haha.

Why is mostly losing and having weak teams regardless of cast considered better than mostly winning titles and having dominant teams??

Why is 1/4 with AD or Love and 2/4 with Wade considered better than 6/6 with Pippen?

I don't understand Lebron's goat case at all

He failed drastically in 2010 so he started teaming up with opposing franchise players thereafter....... And still mostly got destroyed after doing this.

How is this anywhere near GOAT?.. How does having more bad losses than anyone in history qualify someone for GOAT?... How is the biggest loser in NBA history in the goat conversation??

Because all of your narratives are demonstrably false.

By your own criteria Jordan is 6/10 with with Pippen not 6/6.

By definition, 6/10 is winning the majority of the years, aka "mostly" winning

Furthermore, there's a stretch of 6 rings in 7 years, which would constitute "mostly winning" as well and it would fit this definition better than anyone in the modern era.

So Jordan was "mostly winning" with Pippen (either 6/10 or 6/7), while Lebron is mostly losing with AD, Love or Wade (1/4 or 2/4 w/ Allen's save)

Why isn't it completely viable to say that Lebron had an organic juggernaut in Year 7 with a 1-time all-star just like Giannis, Jokic, Curry and MJ did, and the only difference is that Lebron gave up and started teaming up with opposing franchise players thereafter instead of sticking it out like his peers.. Since he became a talent-based winner that always used talent as the excuse for losing (not enough help), he never learned how to win, aka chemistry, organic.... why isn't this completely viable based on the historical record of Lebron and peers of similar caliber?.. And it fits with the eye-test - Lebron has bad fits and weak chemistry all the time (bron-ball, a version of luka-ball).





Except you didn't demonstrate them to be false, in part because their statistical fact - MJ mostly won with Pippen whether we say 6 of 10 years or the 6 in 7 year stretch, while Lebron mostly loses regardless of cast... this isn't a "narrative" - it's the historical and statistical record.

6/10 is obviously extremely good, but when you have a history of biases and cherry-picking, your inaccuracies must be pointed out.

Jordan won at twice the rate of Lebron (40% vs 20%) but more importantly, he had stretches where he mostly won titles and had unbeatable teams, while Lebron never did with any cast.

So Lebron is praised for mostly losing and being extremely beatable with every cast that he ever had, and this is considered better than Jordan mostly winning and being unbeatable with just Pippen. iI's looney tunes.

Lebron lost many times in his prime and in every way - upset losses, sweep losses, numerous losses with 2 all-star teammates, record losses... worst-ever Finals records.. lottery in his prime.... many losses with preseason favorites and 1 or 2 seeds... he's simply the biggest loser of all-time
.

So again, why isn't it completely viable to say that Lebron had an organic juggernaut in Year 7 with a 1-time all-star just like Giannis, Jokic, Curry and MJ did, and the only difference is that Lebron gave up and started teaming up with opposing franchise players thereafter instead of sticking it out like his peers.. Since he became a talent-based winner that always used talent as the excuse for losing (not enough help), he never learned how to win, aka chemistry, organic....

why isn't this completely viable based on the historical record of Lebron and peers of similar caliber?.. And it fits with the eye-test - Lebron has bad fits and weak chemistry all the time (bron-ball, a version of luka-ball).

Btw, is Antawn Jamison a better player all-time than Jamal Murray by virtue of 20k points and 2 all-star teams to 0 for Murray?... Lebron had both Jamison and Mo in 2010, plus a bevy of good role players and top defense.. This is the kind of organic juggernaut that all-timers produce by Year 7 - we saw this with Jokic, Curry, Giannis, Mj and Lebron - they all produced organic juggernauts with "normal" casts by Year 7.. The only difference is that Lebron gave up and sought more talent by teaming up with opponents.. As a talent-based winner that now used talent as the excuse for losing (not enough help), he never truly learned how to win, aka chemistry, organic

4 time finals MVP being the "biggest loser of all-time" is another one of your delusional takes.

If LeBron is the biggest loser of all-time what does that make Charles Barkley or Karl Malone, who never won? Or Kevin Garnett who won 1 title when he was past his prime?

There isn't much between Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett apart from their draft luck.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Jamison as some sort of "great help" that LeBron failed to win with.

Jamison was an inefficient chucker (like Wizards Jordan) except he was kinda like that for his whole career. He's the worst NBA player among players with 20K points.

When LeBron left Cleveland Jamison led the team to a 19-63 record the year after.

Yeah amazing player...

I think the bits TWOG can't comprehend are something like:

- how difficult it is to make a Finals 9 times out of a decade, how insanely dominant your play allied to how consistent your mental and physical capability must be to achieve that;
- how much better the Golden State Warriors and Spurs were than the teams MJ faced in the finals;
- how much less consistency LeBron had around him during that stretch. 3 different Orgs, 3 different coaches, 3 very different supporting casts;
- how 2016 was the goat series where he led the only finals comeback from 1 - 3 while leading all players from both teams in all of points, assists, rebounds, steals and blocks and owning the most clutch defensive moment in NBA history, the Block;
- how much better LeBron's overall career has been when compared to MJ, 20 consecutive All NBA and breaking a record once thought unbreakable while being top 5 all time in assists;
- how LeBron has straddled two very different eras of basketball, from beating the ultra physical Pistons during the nadir of the low scoring 00s to beating the 73 win 3 point raining Warriors to maintaining All NBA level through his entire 30's in a completely different offensive landscape to the league he entered;
- how LeBron is the more versatile player and athlete, having played all 5 positions for at least a full season;

We know how great Jordan's run with the Bulls was, but we also can see that the Org put the right pieces around him and he had the GOAT coach throughout that entire stretch. Jordan's cultural impact was unrivalled, his scoring "bag" the greatest ever and he owns iconic "clutch" moments like the Shot. But he quit twice during his window and couldn't make it happen with a second Organisation even while having full control as GM for a period before he suited up again.

Jordan and LeBron stand alone, the group of posters consistently on here just look at the body of work LeBron continues to put up and we see him as slightly ahead.

The LeBron side of the argument have their extremists, who want to ignore missteps like the Decision or deny that he choked in 2011. But the MJ side is built on a platform of nostalgia, a feeling that the 1990s was basketball perfection just because that was "their" era; and everything to come after must be inferior.

https://youtu.be/-zd62MxKXp8?si=7jBwqmPcdCRq4qLJ

The issue with the debate, in the end, is that old timers insist that LeBron be viewed through the narrow prism of MJ's career. 'He changed teams', 'he doesn't always take the last shot', 'his personality is different to MJ', etc. LeBron is not Michael Jordan. Jordan could never lead both teams in a finals series in points / assists / rebounds / blocks / steals. Jordan could never average a triple double across a finals series. Jordan didn't have the most iconic play of his career be a defensive play. And Jordan couldn't win somewhere else, even with full control.

I see a lot of people not get over the first hurdle: that it's even possible that Jordan isn't the best and / or that the 90's wasn't the greatest era of the game.

roaring applause!

Yeah that's the point - Jamison wasn't that great so he fits right in with Klay, Murray, Middleton and Pippen - these guys were the caliber of cast used by Curry, Jokic, Giannis and MJ to achieve organic juggernauts/league favorites by Year 7.. Lebron was on this track in 2010 but he gave up and teamed up with opponents thereafter.. He gave up on learning how to win via normal casts and chemistry development, and opted for a talent-based approach instead.. As a talent-based winner that now used talent as the excuse for losing (not enough help), he never truly learned how to win, aka chemistry, organic